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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that we are in a new Victorian era of exploitation by the rich of everyone else

167 replies

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 00:56

And with full government support.

Examples:

Who benefits? Not the 7 or more people living in one of the shittiest, crime-ridden cesspits in Europe that is Slough, the owner of the house who boasts 'A Fantastic 14% Yield (Which bank will give you that for your money?) '

14% yield on farming poor people. My bank (fully government bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds of taxpayer cash) gives me 0.5% on my savings.

  • Indentured immigrant labour - business owners don't want to pay people a wage sufficient to have the basic living standards that campaigners fought from the early years of this century onwards to guarantee to every full-time worker. Minimum wage cannot possibly support a family in large areas of the country.

So business owners campaign for unlimited immigration, because otherwise there aren't enough people desperate enough to take their sub-poverty line pay: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/let-more-immigrants-into-uk-because-brits-wont-take-our-jobs-says-dominos-pizza-boss-8992388.html

Australian billionaire Rupert Murdoch's rag The Sun ran a large feature on how worthless and lazy British workers are, on Friday, because there aren't enough of them (in Murdoch's view) willing to work for sub-poverty line wages: twitter.com/StigAbell/status/444802994891423744

  • Low pay subsidies - business owners don't want to pay a sufficient wage, so the government subsidises them in this with tax credits, paid to workers who would otherwise be unwilling to work for poverty-level wages.

  • The great property scam - house prices are beyond all records in terms of income multiples, affordability in terms of wages vs. mortgage payments. This impoverishes everyone in society except for the oldest (who bought their homes for nothing years ago), and who, by no coincidence whatsoever, are most likely to vote, and wealthy landowners (who own more property than they need, and therefore can sell it off at inflated prices to serfs), as ever larger debt repayments are made to banks and to the largest landowners.

Gidiot announced today that the taxpayer will underwrite house builders (big donors to his party) to sell off their shitty newbuild houses at ludicrous debt slave valuations until at least 2020: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26611163

Politicians of all parties support all aspects of this.

We had a post-war 'consensus' between the two major parties. Those who were born with everything would pay higher taxes in order to give opportunity to those born with nothing.

This consensus was smashed by Thatcher, who claimed to represent the little man, selling Sid a couple of hundred British Gas shares, and his council house, but also shutting down any industry that didn't turn a profit every year.

The men of Merthyr Tydfil, once employed in their thousands by the town's coal and steel mills were put out to pasture in the 1980s, with vast numbers never working again, moved onto a diet of anti-depressants and incapacity benefits (news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4217648.stm) by a government that did not care to acknowledge the true scale of unemployment, as it sought to 'restructure' the country from one where most people were paid decent wages for their labour to one based on financial services, where the productive worker is nothing more than a cost centre, to be screwed into the ground, outsourced to India or, more recently, replaced with low-paid foreign labour.

It took Fettes-and-St-John's-Oxford-educated Blair to entrench this Thatcherite consensus permanently. He opened the doors to unlimited low-paid labour from Europe, and introduced the 'zero-hour contract'. He loaded up his 'portfolio' with dozens of 'investment properties', which his policies drove through the roof.

He consorted with crooks, floating around the Mediterranean with rich men whose only moral compass was to be found steering their 150-foot yachts.

He encouraged them to bring their capital, acquired under circumstances that are best not examined, to London, where it could be parked, subject only to the lightest of taxation, in buildings built by their spiritual predecessors, the pre-20th century land-owners, who acquired their wealth by Act of Parliament or royal whim, seizing it from those whose families had worked it for centuries.

His successor, Gordon Brown, formalised these men's tax-free residency, the so-called 'non-dom' status, with the payment of a nominal fee, which made legal and permanent the avoidance of millions of pounds in taxes.

Blair & his cronies were finally were replaced in 2010 by the new Conservative Party, remoulded in Blair's image and, to a man, from backgrounds of extraordinary privilege. Unlike their 20th century political aristocratic antecedents, the likes of Lord Douglas-Home, who might also come from aristocratic backgrounds, the sense that the Lord had some sort of paternal duty towards his men, had long since been abandoned, prey to the forces of 'greed is good' and globalisation.

The new government set out to redouble its predecessor's efforts in support of exploitation, offering business unpaid labour in the shape of 'Workfare', an initiative originating from a man, who unlike 'Sunman' trying out minimum-wage labour while earning a £150k/year salary, had no financial need to perform a day's work in his entire life, a man who claimed that people ENJOYED paying 40% tax, because it made them feel wealthy. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.htm Never mind that such earnings are insufficient to buy a small flat in Del Boy's Peckham, and that paying 40% tax, in Osborne's world, is only for the suckers subject to PAYE, with the truly wealthy able to employ lawyers and accountants to keep their taxes down to fraction of that figure.

AIBU to say that we have the most exploitative society in generations, and that it's only going to get worse?

OP posts:
vickibee · 18/03/2014 17:37

absolutely agree Vivienne about the Royals

LizzieVereker · 18/03/2014 17:42

YANBU!

I'm a secondary school teacher and have been reading "An Inspector Calls" with my bright year 11 class. They are appalled by Mrs Birling and her attitude to the poor. I asked them whether the same attitudes were evident today, and they went off and investigated the media presentation of poverty - they were outraged by what they found. They were especially horrified by the idea that poverty is still presented as "immoral", and that money seems to give the wealthy the right to make moral judgements of the poor.

They were genuinely shocked by what they found, and want to do better for their generation. And they'll be voting soon, so good luck to them.

softlysoftly · 18/03/2014 17:43

Aga are you seriously trying to say the the evil government and rich tricked people into greed and into now needing a double income? Like that wasn't always a human failing.

Feminism made women work! made them realise their freedom and power! the nature of finance, business and people themselves then meant that the perceived value of "things" crept up to match that double income. Bastard feminists.

The only solution to that I'm afraid would be communism, you know, the one where some people are more equal than others.

Rather than spouting the revolution how's about spouting a solution?

OTheHugeManatee · 18/03/2014 17:48

I it's mistaken to talk about going 'backwards' to the Victorian era - IMO it's more that the postwar consensus was a flash in the pan. The situation (welfare state, rising living standards, affordable homes for all) that we all see slipping away and are so furious about losing is an anomaly not a right. I can't think of any other time in history comparable to the era after WW2, when income disparities were as narrow or that there was a similarly general, widespread belief that every generation was going to be richer than the last. IMO this belief is based on a faith in human 'progress' that is poorly evidenced at best.

The postwar generations weren't evil, just lucky. Our generations missed the peak of that particular curve and as such aren't so lucky I will no doubt get flamed for saying this but what goes up must come down and our civilisation is on the wane.

ProfondoRosso · 18/03/2014 17:50

YANBU, Aga. I'm frightened of what the future holds.

I read a paper recently which suggested that, given the way things are going, soon there will be no permanent jobs. We'll all be part of a floating pool of zero hours employees, called on as and when we're needed. And offices will be staffed by people up to the age of 80+.

Changes in tech, outsourcing, the way jobs are done - anyone leading this country needs to DO SOMETHING to make sure its working population is still recognized as useful. We don't want to fly from temp contract to temp contract by the seat of our pants each month but that's the way it's going. I don't know what, but the govt needs to do something.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 18/03/2014 18:05

If there were Grammar schools now, the clever kid off the estate wouldn't get a look in as they would be full with middle class kids whose parents had paid for tutors for 6 years.
Sad but true.

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 18:11

It is true. The system is ruthlessly efficient now, in rationing even access to high-quality education, to the more fortunate.

OP posts:
dolphinsandwhales · 18/03/2014 18:36

Yanbu. The immigrant Labour thing rings so true. I've been passed over for jobs due to immigrants being willing to work for a pittance. Great for employers and big business, terrible for anyone else who has to pay bills and mortgages for ridiculously inflated house prices :-(

thecatfromjapan · 18/03/2014 18:41

I just want to say that the whole "is the whole women-going-out-to-work-thing-good-or-bad?" is a red herring. We could so easily have had a society where work was more evenly distributed, with shorter hours, longer hours, and more people working - at more equitable rates.

Instead, we see people crushed under the current hours; families where both parents are working insane hours, just to service a huge debt/rent on a teeny, tiny living space. And then trying to pay a non-living wage to other women (usually) to perform the feminised tasks of the reproduction of living (cleaning; childcare; cooking [I\m thinking of the women working making and selling pre-cooked food]).

That isn't what any feminists I ever read suggested was in anyone's interests.

Anyway, what a great thread AgaPanthers .

Threads like these serve a purpose: they dispel a. the sense of isolation and gloom that is caused by being ground down in a system that tells you you deserve your exploitation b. they stop you feeling you are going mad because it shows you that others share your experience c. they serve as a useful counter-discourse to the inane and/or lying propaganda you often get drowned in in the media.

uselessidiot · 18/03/2014 18:42

manatee that only justifies the economic situation. Not the message that the low paid are lazy, stupid, evil and shouldn't exist as human beings. That is the very message that is peddled to the public. The message that the Government wants and needs us to believe. Terrifyingly many do believe it.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 18/03/2014 18:51

In the grand scheme of things, the royal family are nowhere near relevant to the way things are going.

Many CEOs of FTSE companies are globally mobile executives from outside the UK who will merrily hop from one multi-million pay deal in one country to another. They give not a shiny shite about the UK or any other individual country where they might decide to sell out a major employer to a foreign buyer or close down/ outsource business units/manufacturing plants (for which they will get yet another bonus).

At the next level up the wealth food chain, we live in a global economy ruled by a global elite for whom the Queen's wealth is pennies. They founded/appropriated/run global mega-corporations who shift interests from country to country without a second thought. It's all about the bottom line, not the people. Who has the most billions? And that is where the real power lies in the world today - the royals can't even come close.

Suzannewithaplan · 18/03/2014 18:52

'I just want to say that the whole "is the whole women-going-out-to-work-thing-good-or-bad?" is a red herring. We could so easily have had a society where work was more evenly distributed, with shorter hours, longer hours, and more people working - at more equitable rates'

hear hear thecat
Also agree with the rest of your post!

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 18/03/2014 18:59

Yes, women going out to work (like the royals) is a distraction not the heart of the story.

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 19:13

I'm not saying women working is a bad thing, it isn't. It's just that we have a system whereby land is rationed, and therefore landowners and the banks are essentially able to absorb all this extra output through the market. I.e. if the average couple in the past worked 40 hours, of which 20 hours went towards housing costs, then now they work, say 60 hours, then 40 hours are going towards housing costs.

All that extra labour is accruing to the richest, and those performing it aren't seeing the benefits, in fact people are working harder for less, and the government just wants to increase that.

OP posts:
frankie4 · 18/03/2014 19:14

YANBU

My DPs are well off, and soak up everything they read in the Daily Mail. They do not understand why British people don't want to work for the minimum wage, they say that they worked for low wages, why shouldn't the young today ? My DPs had low paid jobs when they were young, but bought a four bed house in London for their first house! If they see a house advertised now for £400,000 they think it sounds cheap.

I don't think things will start to change in this country until my generation (40 something's) get older and our votes start to count, with us being worried about how our children are going to afford to live.

littledrummergirl · 18/03/2014 19:16

I'm beginning to wonder why THE REVOLUTION hasn't started......has the Tory party put something in the water to subdue us & put up with it all?

Tax credits and benefits.

thecatfromjapan · 18/03/2014 19:18

AgaPanthers my post wasn't intended as a contradiction, rather as support (and against a poster who said that your point about double-income debt-slaves was down to feminism).

A friend of mine (and mumsnetter) calls the current situation a form of New Enclosures, since so much of it is about expropriation of land from the poorer to the richer.

littledrummergirl · 18/03/2014 19:21

If there were Grammar schools now, the clever kid off the estate wouldn't get a look in as they would be full with middle class kids whose parents had paid for tutors for 6 years.
Sad but true.

we live on an estate and my ds1 goes to the most sought after, takes top 5% of dcs grammar, he is very bright though.
Maybe he is an anomally.

On an aside- Aga, youre not my brother are you? this sounds very much like discussions in our family.

Parliamo · 18/03/2014 19:42

Yanbu, and it's a relief to read I'm not alone is despairing.

Also as an aside, you could have a thread along the lines of what did the Victorians do for us... Theatres, sewers, parks, town halls etc. Don't see a lot of that sort of philanthropy round by us.

gretagrape · 18/03/2014 19:51

Actually they didn't work as hard as the present generation. In the past it was normal for a family to live off a man's income.

That doesn't mean they had loads of spare time or weren't working hard. I'm on a parenting course at the moment and every single one of us said that our Mum's didn't spend anywhere near as much time with us as we do with our kids because keeping a house afloat with barely any money coming in was bloody hard work. Everyday activities were shitloads harder than they are for me - shopping every single day because you don't have a car and can't afford the bus, washing every single day by hand because you can't afford a washing machine, cooking every single day because you can't afford a freezer. I don't pity them either - I am inspired by them.

Well yes, lucky for them debt wasn't marketed on TV in those days. It's not some sort of moral superiority.

No, but loan sharks aren't a new thing. It's not about moral superiority, it was just a different mindset - if their food budget was halved, then that's what they spent (and that's probably not too far from the truth at some periods when inflation was rocketing).

That doesn't mean that today's population are worthless and lazy, because they don't follow 1950s spending paterns.

Don't believe I implied that at all.

But the implication that if only these young people would stop wasting money on shiny crap they could afford to be a good debt slave, is quite a nasty one.

Don't believe I implied that either. Probably could have used a different word instead of gadgets but there we go.

Your parents are lucky with their pensions then - mine certainly weren't and my Dad laughed when I suggested his wages had doubled in 3 years!

littledrummergirl · 18/03/2014 19:53

Bees make honey which beekeepers take and replace with sugar water. Just as sweet but not as satisfying so they make more honey.
Bit like the workers getting just enough. Sooner or later the workers will realise that sugar water is not enough and they want the genuine thing. Then will come the evolution.

lolatu · 18/03/2014 19:57

The postwar generations weren't evil, just lucky.

They were lucky but then voted for and supported en masse policies that enriched themselves at the expense of taking away the opportunities they had themselves from subsequent generations.

Quite frankly I think this country is beyond hope. With parties like UKIP who have the ultimate NIMBY, status quo agenda gathering support there's no hope for any useful change. If we leave the EU things will get even worse, The EU for all its faults is a restraining socialist influence on our grossly unequal exploitative society. (And I've never been described as a socialist)

Suzannewithaplan · 18/03/2014 19:58

I hope it is evolution rather than revolution.

Revolutions tend to be very unpleasant for all concerned, and I suspect highly unlikely in a modern first world country

teaandthorazine · 18/03/2014 20:01

YANBU.

And I agree wholeheartedly about the consciousness-raising. We have become so complacent and so apathetic (I include myself in that). I've had a few little epiphanies recently...think it's time to ACT.

Linguini · 18/03/2014 20:05

Bring on a revolution, please.

I suggest something in the style of the French revolution, but more like abolishing monopoly. (present day aristocracy)

But at least we aren't in Russia, where all natural resources and industry was taken over (basically stolen) by criminals who now also own most of London's property and UK's football clubs, seemingly permitted and encouraged by the west.

I agree with all of it but what do we do !!