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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that we are in a new Victorian era of exploitation by the rich of everyone else

167 replies

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 00:56

And with full government support.

Examples:

Who benefits? Not the 7 or more people living in one of the shittiest, crime-ridden cesspits in Europe that is Slough, the owner of the house who boasts 'A Fantastic 14% Yield (Which bank will give you that for your money?) '

14% yield on farming poor people. My bank (fully government bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds of taxpayer cash) gives me 0.5% on my savings.

  • Indentured immigrant labour - business owners don't want to pay people a wage sufficient to have the basic living standards that campaigners fought from the early years of this century onwards to guarantee to every full-time worker. Minimum wage cannot possibly support a family in large areas of the country.

So business owners campaign for unlimited immigration, because otherwise there aren't enough people desperate enough to take their sub-poverty line pay: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/let-more-immigrants-into-uk-because-brits-wont-take-our-jobs-says-dominos-pizza-boss-8992388.html

Australian billionaire Rupert Murdoch's rag The Sun ran a large feature on how worthless and lazy British workers are, on Friday, because there aren't enough of them (in Murdoch's view) willing to work for sub-poverty line wages: twitter.com/StigAbell/status/444802994891423744

  • Low pay subsidies - business owners don't want to pay a sufficient wage, so the government subsidises them in this with tax credits, paid to workers who would otherwise be unwilling to work for poverty-level wages.

  • The great property scam - house prices are beyond all records in terms of income multiples, affordability in terms of wages vs. mortgage payments. This impoverishes everyone in society except for the oldest (who bought their homes for nothing years ago), and who, by no coincidence whatsoever, are most likely to vote, and wealthy landowners (who own more property than they need, and therefore can sell it off at inflated prices to serfs), as ever larger debt repayments are made to banks and to the largest landowners.

Gidiot announced today that the taxpayer will underwrite house builders (big donors to his party) to sell off their shitty newbuild houses at ludicrous debt slave valuations until at least 2020: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26611163

Politicians of all parties support all aspects of this.

We had a post-war 'consensus' between the two major parties. Those who were born with everything would pay higher taxes in order to give opportunity to those born with nothing.

This consensus was smashed by Thatcher, who claimed to represent the little man, selling Sid a couple of hundred British Gas shares, and his council house, but also shutting down any industry that didn't turn a profit every year.

The men of Merthyr Tydfil, once employed in their thousands by the town's coal and steel mills were put out to pasture in the 1980s, with vast numbers never working again, moved onto a diet of anti-depressants and incapacity benefits (news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4217648.stm) by a government that did not care to acknowledge the true scale of unemployment, as it sought to 'restructure' the country from one where most people were paid decent wages for their labour to one based on financial services, where the productive worker is nothing more than a cost centre, to be screwed into the ground, outsourced to India or, more recently, replaced with low-paid foreign labour.

It took Fettes-and-St-John's-Oxford-educated Blair to entrench this Thatcherite consensus permanently. He opened the doors to unlimited low-paid labour from Europe, and introduced the 'zero-hour contract'. He loaded up his 'portfolio' with dozens of 'investment properties', which his policies drove through the roof.

He consorted with crooks, floating around the Mediterranean with rich men whose only moral compass was to be found steering their 150-foot yachts.

He encouraged them to bring their capital, acquired under circumstances that are best not examined, to London, where it could be parked, subject only to the lightest of taxation, in buildings built by their spiritual predecessors, the pre-20th century land-owners, who acquired their wealth by Act of Parliament or royal whim, seizing it from those whose families had worked it for centuries.

His successor, Gordon Brown, formalised these men's tax-free residency, the so-called 'non-dom' status, with the payment of a nominal fee, which made legal and permanent the avoidance of millions of pounds in taxes.

Blair & his cronies were finally were replaced in 2010 by the new Conservative Party, remoulded in Blair's image and, to a man, from backgrounds of extraordinary privilege. Unlike their 20th century political aristocratic antecedents, the likes of Lord Douglas-Home, who might also come from aristocratic backgrounds, the sense that the Lord had some sort of paternal duty towards his men, had long since been abandoned, prey to the forces of 'greed is good' and globalisation.

The new government set out to redouble its predecessor's efforts in support of exploitation, offering business unpaid labour in the shape of 'Workfare', an initiative originating from a man, who unlike 'Sunman' trying out minimum-wage labour while earning a £150k/year salary, had no financial need to perform a day's work in his entire life, a man who claimed that people ENJOYED paying 40% tax, because it made them feel wealthy. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.htm Never mind that such earnings are insufficient to buy a small flat in Del Boy's Peckham, and that paying 40% tax, in Osborne's world, is only for the suckers subject to PAYE, with the truly wealthy able to employ lawyers and accountants to keep their taxes down to fraction of that figure.

AIBU to say that we have the most exploitative society in generations, and that it's only going to get worse?

OP posts:
Toadinthehole · 18/03/2014 08:34

YABU.

Exploitation in Victorian times was ten or more times worse. Relief for the poor was half a loaf of a place in the workhouse.

Which means, of course, that things could get ten times worse unless we fight back.

mummymeister · 18/03/2014 08:43

If you don't like the current politics then the only way - the only way - to change it is if you get involved. moaning about it, pointing out the obvious, no one in power gives a stuff. take action and they take notice. Any of you who were girl guides might remember the following "... twist me and turn me and show me the elf (who does all the cleaning). I looked in the mirror, and there saw myself..." getting involved does take time and effort but has to be worth it.

BumpyGrindy · 18/03/2014 09:03

I am getting so tired of it all. I suspect that there are a lot of people...middle class people with good salaries who own a house and are under 45...are in for a BIG shock in later life.

Those who own more than one property will be ok...the "ordinary" working middle class are going to reap the problems ordinarily reaped by the working classes....the working classes are going to be in the aforementioned workhouses once they reach retirement age.

whatsgoinon · 18/03/2014 09:26

CelticPromise hear hear

bochead · 18/03/2014 10:28

Amazing post OP!

Lets not forget the constant rhetoric about the "deserving and undeserving poor" that sounds just like an feudal manifesto.

The undeserving poor include those too disabled to work for peanuts, who are suffering horribly under the ATOS regime. Or the 20,000 that die of cold related conditions each winter due to the fuel/food conundrum that extreme poverty induces.

Or the fact that so many workers are reduced to having to beg to use food banks - the fact there existence is even needed to such a degree is a national disgrace!

The post ware pact between the worker and the ruling elite is well and truly broken and so many families who regard themselves as "middle-class" seem totally blind to the fact that they gradually are being put back into their historical place of dependence and servitude, subject to the whims of their overlords.

A decent state education is no longer universally available to all children, they will often no longer before afford to go to University or further skilled job training, let alone afford to house their own families when the time comes. Unless more of us wake up and fast, the world our grandchildren will grow up in, will be a very grim one indeed.

Goldencity1 · 18/03/2014 10:47

YANBU! It is time people realized what is going on, DH and I have been talking about this and believe that it has been deliberate gov. policy to widen the gap between the "haves" and "have nots", in effect to control the working population for the benefit of the few. The so-called minimum wage which has ensured that wages are kept down, cheap imported labour, tuition fees, the gradual destruction of the NHS the list goes on.

I too would not be surprised to see the return of the work house, for the lazy "benefit scroungers" and for any working person unfortunate enough to become disabled or just old.

But who to vote for? There are all as bad as each other.

ConferencePear · 18/03/2014 11:11

YANBU
I read somewhere that 20% of the benefits bill goes on people who are working. So this means that someone like me is paying tax to subsidise employers who are not paying their workers enough to live on. This seems illogical to me as I am not so far from the bottom of the pile myself.
If you can't afford to pay your workers properly then you should find another business.

Ubik1 · 18/03/2014 11:19

did you see this?

"Oxfam said the wealth gap in the UK was becoming more entrenched as a result of the ability of the better off to capture the lion's share of the proceeds of growth. Since the mid-1990s, the incomes of the top 0.1% have grown by £461 a week or £24,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 90% have seen a real terms increase of only £2.82 a week or £147 a year."

"The charity said the trends in income had been made even more adverse by increases in the cost of living over the past decade. "Since 2003 the majority of the British public (95%) have seen a 12% real terms drop in their disposable income after housing costs, while the richest 5% of the population have seen their disposable income increase."

"Osborne will this week announce details of the government's new cap on the welfare budget and has indicated that he wants up to £12bn a year cut from the benefits bill in order to limit the impact of future rounds of austerity on Whitehall departments."

softlysoftly · 18/03/2014 11:30

Yes all rich people / businesses are exploitative bastards.

YABU and hyperbolic in your phrasing so you lost me way before your liturgy of links Hmm

MrsEdinburgh · 18/03/2014 11:36

YANBU

I'm beginning to wonder why THE REVOLUTION hasn't started......has the Tory party put something in the water to subdue us & put up with it all?

Apologies if the last bit sounds a bit mad but it makes me so angry.....

It probably won't make a big ripple but I am seriously looking into becoming a parish councillor.

The least we can do is all to vote in elections , as over the last two centuries, people have lost their liberties, livelihoods, good names & lifes to give us the vote.

It is our duty to honour these sacrifices.
(If you don't like any of the parties/candidates you can always spoil your ballot paper.......at least you have done your bit.)

Ubik1 · 18/03/2014 11:39

You can't argue with the facts softlysoftly

"Since the mid-1990s, the incomes of the top 0.1% have grown by £461 a week or £24,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 90% have seen a real terms increase of only £2.82 a week or £147 a year."

Suzannewithaplan · 18/03/2014 11:40

I'm with you OP, we need mass consciousness raising!

But these are complex issues and the victims of exploitation are often too tied up coping with life to fully appreciate the exact mechanisms by which they are oppressed.

Suzannewithaplan · 18/03/2014 11:43

Re lack of revolution, we are too divided and busy competing for crumbs.

vickibee · 18/03/2014 11:46

Make sure you vote next year to try and change things. The tories will always look after the rich at the expense of everyone else, get them out at the Ballot Box.
(Where I live you could put a chimp as the Labour party candidate and they would always win)

MrsEdinburgh · 18/03/2014 11:47

Yes that's unfortunately right Suzanne
Divide & conquer and all that.

Ubik1 · 18/03/2014 11:55

"I think there are two ways in which people are controlled. First of all frighten them, secondly demoralise them." Tony Benn

This is what we are witnessing.

dollius · 18/03/2014 11:56

God, YA SO NBU

I have been saying this for years about property prices - always shouted down by my parents who now think they own US because their generation have us all over a barrel just to put a roof over our children's heads

dollius · 18/03/2014 12:02

What scares me is that DH and I are nowhere near the bottom of the pile in terms of income, but we could never in a million years afford to house our family of five in or within commuting distance of London.

Not sure what we will do when we return to the UK - both our jobs can only be done in London.

Last time we lived there, we nearly killed ourselves commuting 3 hours per day each and juggling childcare. Our commuting costs were higher than our rent, but combined were less than we would need to live in London.

I cannot imagine how people on lower incomes survive these days.

It utterly sickens me that two of the richest families in the Uk are so rich because they happen to own swathes of land in central London. No-one should be able to own land like that and profit from the backs of working people who have no choice but to live there and, who, are just trying to live.

It is just like playing Monopoly.

Why is housing not seen as an essential, like food and water? Why is the cost of it allowed to spiral like this?

Suzannewithaplan · 18/03/2014 12:06

Then again this is the information age, it is harder to keep 'the people' in the dark.
Also harder to control the media (since it now includes social media, and content generated by the public)

In order to oppress the population the govt needs to control the beliefs and ideas which are shared amongst them.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 18/03/2014 12:06

I've been saying this to my family for a few years now, but they just don't get it - they think I'm exaggerating.

And for those who think it's all the nasty Tories and Labour would do better - well - surely recent experience (as illustrated in the data provided above about income trends since the mid-90's) shows the lie in that?

An interesting study published this week suggests wage inequality is partly why our modern global industrial civilisation will collapse - just as the Roman empire etc collapsed before it www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/14/nasa-civilisation-irreversible-collapse-study-scientists

This may only be avoidable, imho, if we become more self-sufficient in energy and food production (hopefully providing jobs and increasing internal security), and if there is a global movement to shame the ruling elite into paying real wages - rather than hiking up their own salaries while cutting jobs/salaries for everyone below them. Public or legal action in particular countries won't work as the bosses will just move elsewhere - so there has to be some sort of global consensus. Success will be reliant upon the ruling elite realising that a fairer society is in its own long-term self-interest, before it is too late.

BelleJolie · 18/03/2014 12:07

Agree, OP. I've never really understood nor taken an interest in politics and economics but have lately started educating myself as I've felt so angry at the inequality in our society. And it is just getting worse.

I just wish I could do something about it but I don't know what.

HeeHiles · 18/03/2014 12:08

I'm beginning to wonder why THE REVOLUTION hasn't started......has the Tory party put something in the water to subdue us & put up with it all?

Don't know about you but everyone I know works full time, raising families, studying and updating skills, we are slaves now to our mortgages and rents and have no time or energy in us to fight back!

HeeHiles · 18/03/2014 12:11

I just wish I could do something about it but I don't know what

Maybe start an online petition from the 10 Downing st website? I don't know how but it's probably quite a simple process?

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 18/03/2014 12:16

This is such a great quote on this topic:

"It is a national evil that any class of Her Majesty’s subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions… where you have what we call sweated trades, you have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is undercut by the bad and the bad by the worst; the worker, whose whole livelihood depends upon the industry, is undersold by the worker who only takes up the trade as a second string… where these conditions prevail you have not a condition of progress, but a condition of progressive degeneration."
Winston Churchill, circa 1909.

Ubik1 · 18/03/2014 12:17

I suppose previous generations could rely on the Labour left and the trades union movement.

But Tony Blair shifted Labour to the centre right and really there is no credible left wing in this country anymore.

The rhetoric of capitalism is everywhere. You see it on mumsnet all the time, we think of ourselves as walking CVs, we value ourselves according to this.
The subtext is that if you find yourself in an immensely stressful, minimum-wage 0-hours contract caring job in which you will be looking after the welfare of society's most vulnerable - inexperienced, undertrained and unsupported - finding old folk collapsed on the floor or incontinent, dealing with people trying to commit suicide or just so lonely they want to die...it's your fault.

No one will criticise exploitation or greed on the part of employers any more.