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Nest of Vapers- we continue to not BU to carry on vaping!!

993 replies

magimedi · 06/03/2014 22:23

This is now the fourth thread in six months - which must say something about vaping. Thread 3 & links back are here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1985116-AIBU-to-carry-on-evangalising-about-electronic-cigarettes-Part-3?pg=1

For all new vapers I will again copy Allergic's great summary of what all the terms mean - but don't hesitate to ask anything about vaping

We all started from scratch & know what how very confusing it can be.

No question is to daft to ask - it really can be a minefield but it is a route to no more cigarettes! (nearly 18 months in for me!)

Allergic's great summary:

""A very simple guide for those who have been a bit overwhelmed by all the variety discussed on this thread. Experienced vapers either ignore, or check for errors please!

There can be a trade off to be considered around cost, variety, overall experience and hassle.

The cigalike ones are the simplest to deal with in that you just unscrew one cart & screw in another. These tend to be the type that you can buy at the local market or shopping centre for a comparatively cheap initial purchase, but the carts they use can be very expensive and tend to be limited in flavours/strengths depending on brand. They can be useful in that they are small, look the most like "real" cigs, and are the most hassle-free, but the experience really isn't as good as other methods and the cost is higher.

The next step is to have a battery and disposable tank type system (CE4 in my case) where you buy the different liquids and fill the tank yourself. The batteries last a few months to a year (about the same or a little longer than the cigalikes) and the tanks (clearomisers) last anything from a couple of weeks to a couple of months - this can be extended by cleaning, but the coils inside do eventually pack in. This method is much cheaper and gives a much more satisfying experience, but has the added faff of unscrewing and topping up the tank rather than just chucking the

You can then go further and use tanks that have replaceable wicks & coils, can be stripped down & "serviced" etc. There's also a lot of variety and complexity available in the overall set-up e.g. variable voltage batteries. All these add to the hassle factor but allow the overall experience to be much better fine tuned to suit the vaper. Cost is a moot point here - you will save money using serviceable tanks, but people that get really into this can spend a fair bit on shiney new toys!

When it comes to the "juice" or liquid there's a hell of a lot of different things to consider - nicotine strength, flavour, the balance of "throat hit" vs vapour etc. But basically there are 3 ways to get the right juice which are buy ready made from a big importer (limited options), buy made to order from a smaller supplier (needs to steep for a few days), or buy the makings & mix your own (hassle, mess & steeping). These have been ordered from minimum hassle/maximum price to maximum hassle/minimum cost.

I'm a naturally lazy person and comparatively new to vaping, so I have a battery & disposable tank system, and am currently buying imported juice (Hangsen pineapple and Smartjuice Red tobacco flavour) which I know has steeped plenty while being shipped over and both brands have very good quality control. I will probably go directly to mostly mixing my own once I get a bit more money at the end of the month to buy all the bits & base liquids, though will probably continue buying the Smartjuice tobacco flavour because I like it so much! I doubt I will go down the road of serviceable tanks unless I get a nice glass one eventually."

OP posts:
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FlockOfTwats · 12/03/2014 00:35

Just been ch

FlockOfTwats · 12/03/2014 07:49

FFS my phone didnt enter my comment. Meant to say last night that i'd been chatting on a vaping group. Apparently the mech mods were originally modified from torches, so they reckon theyll just import as torches.

Allergictoironing · 12/03/2014 07:55

That's all excellent news Flock Smile.

The legislation will allow for pretty standard stuff I think, but anything really good (like vv & vw) looks like they can try to ban direct imports or manufacture. But with this type of workaround we should be absolutely fine - though the added faff will still put some off trying sadly.

Allergictoironing · 12/03/2014 11:50

I can never get the whole taste out of the wicks when I want to change the flavours in a clearo, so have decided that even I could manage to change the wick in a GS-H2 and that seems to be the best solution.

So recommendations please lovely technical ladies who fiddle with their kit, what's a decent wick for me to get? Ideally not insanely expensive, and also preferably quicker delivery than the month or so that FastTech can take.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 12:01

Yes, in lots of ways the law is unenforceable. An ecig is basically a torch battery with a bit of wire wrapped round a bit of wicking material stuck on top of it. Also, according to the EU press release, The new rules are designed to ensure equal treatment across the EU for nicotine containing e-cigarettes (products that do not contain nicotine are not covered by the Directive). I now have a fair collection of batteries and tanks that 'do not contain nicotine' because I haven't put any in yet! If everything is sold as 'for 0% nicotine liquid only', the directive doesn't apply to anything except prefilled cartomisers - no other equipment is affected. Confused

Those who already know what they're doing and where to find stuff and are OK on liquid below 20mg (it will be 18mg in practice) will be fine.

People who will lose out are:

  • anybody who needs liquid above 20mg to stay off fags (approx 1 in 4 vapers)
  • newbie vapers who will probably only be able to find cigalikes, which don't work for most people
  • the vast majority of SMEs in the vaping market who will be unable to afford the testing and notification regime (so we all lose out)
  • forums, youtube channels etc. that rely on ecig advertising to support themselves (so we all lose out)

Those who gain from the legislation:

  • Big tobacco - there will be no competition for their cigalikes
  • Big pharma - 'medicinal' ecigs (currently being developed) are not covered by the TPD
  • The government - more taxes from tobacco as far fewer smokers will successfully make the switch than they would have done.

So it's still really important to fight this, even if we'll be OK.

QueenStromba · 12/03/2014 12:08

Liberty Flights sent out another email yesterday. The UK are now up to 10,000 signatures which is 20% of our target.

twitter.com/LibFlightsUK/status/443118642629468161/photo/1

I'm really surprised that I've not had similar emails from other suppliers - I've bought from a fair few places.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 12:19

Allergic, I use 0.2mm Kanthal wire with 3mm silica wick.

You will also need some way of reading ohms. If you don't have a mod with an ohms reader you can use an ordinary multimeter (needs steadier hands than mine) or you can get one of these - I have one and it's very easy to use.

GS-H2s are basically the same design as evods so if you go on youtube and search 'evod rebuild' you'll find lots of videos to show you what to do. I'd watch a few and then develop a method that suits you. I stick a piece of wick onto a safety pin and wrap the wire around that.

QueenStromba · 12/03/2014 12:23

Bugger, I need to change flavouring brand :(

TVECA wrote a letter to MEPs in support of article 18 and not only is Flavour Art a member but they publicly support the letter.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 12:24

That's brilliant Queen. What's the deal with flavourart? There are a few snotty tweets about them on that page.

I don't think I've posted this on the new thread yet ...

Where we're at now: Last week, the EU voted in favour of adopting the Tobacco Products Directive, including Article 18a (now renamed Article 20) which concerns ecigs. You can read the full text of Article 20 here. This legislation is likely to come into force in May of this year and member states will have up to 30 months to comply (but they don't have to wait that long!)

  • No device on the market today could comply with this legislation except cig-alikes with disposable cartridges - the sort produced by big tobacco and big pharma.
  • No e-liquid over 20mg/ml will be legal (18mg/ml in practice to allow for a margin of error) - an estimated one quarter of vapers use liquid above this strength and are likely to return to smoking if they cannot get it.
  • The requirement for all new devices to be approved six months before coming to market will kill innovation in the EU. Currently it is usual to see new versions of products released every few weeks.
  • The notification regime will be too expensive for small companies to comply with. 98% of the market is made up of SMEs. Meanwhile, big tobacco and pharma will have no problem absorbing the costs.
  • Restrictions on sponsorship will mean it becomes very difficult for forums, youtube channels and other sources of information to survive.

What we can do: A European Citizen's Initiative has been launched by European Free Vaping Initiative. 'The European citizens' initiative allows one million EU citizens to participate directly in the development of EU policies, by calling on the European Commission to make a legislative proposal.'

This is not just another petition. Numerous hurdles have already been cleared to set it up and secure the necessary representatives in countries across the EU. The initiative now needs 1 million 'statements of support' (basically signatures) by 25th November and for at least 7 member states to meet their 'quota' - a set number of signatures based on population.

If the required number of signatures is reached, it means that vapers themselves will have the opportunity to present their case to the EU and propose sensible legislation for ecigs to replace article 20 of the TPD.

Who should sign:

  • vapers
  • smokers, because you might want to try switching one day
  • friends and family of vapers
  • friends and family of smokers
  • people who don't like being around smokers or who worry about SHS
  • people who care about harm reduction and saving lives

How to sign:

  • Go here - www.efvi.eu/
  • Scroll down to the big green rectangle and click it
  • Fill in your info on the EU site

You will be asked to provide your full name, address and DOB. This is because this is not just another petition, it's an official EU process - they need to check you are a genuine EU citizen.

Please also ask your families, friends, colleagues etc. to sign and share on FB, Twitter or whatever else you do online.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 12:26

Ha x-post! why are they supporting TVECA? It makes no sense at all Confused

QueenStromba · 12/03/2014 12:57

This is the response Flavour Art gave to someone who questioned their position.

KatieScarlett2833 · 12/03/2014 13:02

The replies are excellent.
What fools they are, way to go to alienate their customer base Shock
Business fail 101.

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:06

Blimey!

I quite fancy one of these:

myepack.co.uk/mods/itaste-mvp-shine-kit.html Blush

Can I use GS-H2s with it?

QueenStromba · 12/03/2014 13:10

Of course you can Ledare :) MVPs are awesome.

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:11

Thanks Queen Smile

KatieScarlett2833 · 12/03/2014 13:13

The purple one sure is purdy...
(Somebody stop me, FFS!!!!)
Shock

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:17

That's the one I like...

KatieScarlett2833 · 12/03/2014 13:18

Not helping Led Wink

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:21

Sorry Grin

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 13:23

Wow. FA have been on my list of things to try. Maybe I'll wait and pick up something in their bancruptcy sale.

Ledare - get the pink one with the skull on it!

I want one of these Grin

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:38

Lol at skull.

What the hell does that even do? Flux capacitor? I expect time travel at the very least.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 12/03/2014 13:53

Yes, the optional Flux Capacitor Module does allow time travel, 'so you can jump back in time to recover e-liquid you've already vaped before you vape it providing an infinite amount of supplies' Smile

Does anyone know if unobtanium has any known health risks?

Ledare · 12/03/2014 13:55

Ha! That would be well worth the money. It'd pay for itself with the time travel lottery ticket.

Ledare · 12/03/2014 17:30

Remember this link up thread?

I have been smoking 20 mg liquids for a few weeks and my favourite 24mg has been tasting burnt no matter what I do.

I've just tried the 18mg in that flavour and OMG, it's so nice - I can taste it again!

There is definitely something in that.

I'm going to leave it well alone because I have 120ml of the higher nic liquid to get through first. I can't be having that tasting awful.

I've also succumbed to the shinyitis Blush

QueenStromba · 12/03/2014 18:22

You can always get some 12mg and mix it 50:50 with the 24mg to make 18mg Ledare.

I've spent a lot of today reading about TVECA and the TPD. The whole fiasco is really not good for my blood pressure. I'm gutted about flavour art.