to Sometimes get fed up being the pivotal person in my house?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

Had a bit of a melt - down today, for many reasons.

I know that there really is no escape, but I seem to be the one who:

reminds,
decides,
repeats,
Is asked what/where/wgen/who/how,
and so on.

Does anyone else get fed up with nothing seeming to happen unless they provides the encouragement or urging or reminding or deciding to get it done?

Spero I think you're coming off a bit harsh here. You're evaluating everyone's situation with the benefit of hindsight.

I do like your work on mumsnet as a whole though.
Your work on JH was superb.
In the earlier days of that, you and I had a few chats about it by pm.

Sorry if I am coming across as harsh. But I would say the truth hurts.

Anchories, you have repeatedly tried to cast this debate in terms of a few mimsy hysterics getting wound up about the odd pair of pants - I am not the only one to call you out on this. I do think this is minimisation, which goes hand in hand with its twin denial.

Interesting you recall my interactions with JH. Now, there is a prime example of what these kind of men are like - boasting about his 27 mistresses then installing one of them in a house down the road from his wife!

At heart, a fundamental dislike of women motivates them. I really do believe that. And if just one lurker gets the strength from this thread to make some changes, I will consider it worthwhile, even though I am sorry to have upset you in the process.

My aim is not to cause gratuitous offence but hopefully lay out my mistakes and failings to save others from the same path.

of course you learn from your partner, but that is very different than trying to drag a manbaby through adolescence to something like a responsible adult.

if you have to drag someone to do a simple task, IME, you will fail.

I am not denying. Denying what exactly? Others can read what I post and make up their own minds.

a fundamental dislike of women motivates them

That is at the heart of what you are posting and why.
Are you saying that that is true about your own dad?

The phrase may be right about some men, but painting all men with the same brush is lazy and erroneous .

You also mention, "same path". The same path as you?
Each and every partnership is different.
I am still getting a huge impression of self projection.

In no way have you upset me!!

It would help if you read what I actually wrote, not what you would like me to have written to prove your point!

I explicitly put my dad in the category of hopeless but kind hearted bumbler. He did try but mum took over and did everything because he exasperated her. So that was a rod she made for her own back.

It is the other category of men I worry about and it is this category of men I think this thread is about.

Let me give you another example from my own personal store of why I think these men are so awful - I had chemotherapy last year which finished at the end of April so I knew that I would be feeling particularly bad for the Easter holidays. I asked my ex if he could look after my daughter for two weeks not one. He refused because it would be 'inconvenient'.

Do you see what the refusal to pick up pants, buy food, help in anyway translates to? When you are desperate and on the floor they will quite happily just step over you.

Be very, very careful if you are with this type of man. Don't for fucks sake ever get ill.

Don't of course spurn the good hearted doofus if he shows he loves and values you in other ways. But don't put up with someone who shows every single day that he doesn't value or appreciate what you do.

Please don't.

anchories

do you believe that the otherwise capable men on this thread really cannot perform simple household tasks?

I have been happily married for 26 years.

Your last post was much better.

And of course, if you find this simply unhelpful 'self projection' then feel very free to ignore it.

But what can any of us do but offer our own experiences and wisdom that was very hard earned over very many years?

If that is not your experience then good for you. But these kind of threads pop up every week. I think there are a lot of women who know exactly what I am talking about.

Only a tiny minority YouAre.
There is a poster on the mumsnet board called MrsKoala for example. It has been plain to see by myself and many other posters, that though he is supremely intelligent, that his brain simply works in different ways to others. Way different.

I cannot comment on Mr Koala as I have never met the man.

every 'supremely intelligent' person I have met has (1) been hiding their lack of intelligence (well moderate intelligence) (2) avoided tasks they want to avoid

its either a SN o0r bullshit. IMO.

and why are so many men like this? they clearly arent all 'supremely intelligent'.

tis bullshit.

looks like bullshit. smells like bs.

and I say this as someone who designs solutions for multi billon dollar business. so I aint stupid.

always ask 'who benefits?'

I agree it can only be a tiny, tiny subset of men who genuinely cannot perform basic household tasks because they are too busy calculating the likelihood of black holes appearing in the cosmos or whatever.

But the vast majority of men who claim to be helpless are not in the Stephen Hawking fan club. They are simply lazy gits.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the proposition - it's either SN or it's bullshit.

Yes I hear you! YANBU.

I get annoyed by DH and the three DCs looking blankly at me every weekend and asking what we're doing, as if they are incapable of thinking of ideas themselves....

AND stuff on the stairs..... it's obviously there to be taken up and put away but I'm the only bloody one that doesn't walk straight past it. Same as putting a new loo roll on when you've just used the last bit!

AND every week I do the online shop on a Sunday to be delivered on a Monday. After I've painstakingly planned 7 meals that everyone will eat, and lost the will to live in the meantime, plus all the other bits we need, say to DH 'can YOU think of anything we need'. The answer is always no , blankly, until, of course, the deadline for editing the order has passed, then he's 'oh we need x y and z' grrrrrrrr!

This is worth a read

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/08/paying-for-housework-domestic-women-men

Crikey, I appear to be Barbara Ellen.

'Moreover, there is the enduring problem of male resistance to, and contempt for, housework. Things may slowly be getting better (especially with the rise of the female breadwinner and, correspondingly, the house husband). However, it seems no accident that the phrase "women's work" persists. While there are men who believe that housework deserves respect, many others still don't. How can housework achieve genuine "value" and be fairly remunerated while there are still some men who not only feel emasculated by it but are proud of the fact, believing that it makes them more manly?

This is where the idea of "women's work" comes from. Don't be fooled by chauvinist baloney about homemaking traditions ("seeing their mothers doing it"), this is about power and status. It's about a particular brand of entrenched male aversion to any ("female") work that is difficult, boring and relentless but also unpaid/poorly paid and low-status. Never mind all the rot about women looking "so feminine" dusting – inbuilt male dread of being perceived as "low status" remains a strong reason why many women still get lumbered with boring old housework.'

I feel the thread misrepresents most men. Most men (certainly in my experience ) pull their weight. It is not surprising that women who have ended up with the worst men post on this thread but it is not representative of most men in my view.

I can also remember a phase when I did not washing - my children's father did it all and I literally did not know how to use the machine. It was not hard to learn but I didn't know. At the moment I don't set the central heating (I think my daughter set it). I could spend some time getting the user manual out and learn.

What I would say is housework is boring and most people hate it and as soon as most people start to earn enough money they try to find someone to do it for them. Both my daughters in their 20s have cleaners for example as do I as do mnay men.

I hate sanctification of domestic tasks as if they were some kind of prayer exercise which makes women morally good. No they aren't. They are awful and boring and men may well say you're doing the hardest job in the world but all they mean is I have been able to con you into doing dross domestic stuff by putting you on a pedestal and in the process ensure you don't earn much and live off my earnings and keep you down.

DP certainly isn't like the men on this thread. we are looking for a cleaner at the moment so I cleaned the bathrooms last weekend and he did them this weekend without being asked.

splitting the tasks is just normal.

the argument 'its easier to do yourself' is to avoid confrontation.

My dh is wonderful around the house with chores etc. he does more than his fair share. In fact I have done very little today. He has good job, intelligent, and all that!

Yet I still have to do the little things. I have left it up to him to plan our weekend break this time. I always do it. But now it is his turn. So far I have had to 'mention' that the dog will need to be looked after, the chickens will need someone to come in & sort them out.

If I need him to bring home a pint of milk 'text me' he'll say, when I have just asked him on the phone.

He picks up the girls from kids club every week, yet asks me to text him to remind him.

He always forgets that dd2 needs to do her reading for school. he will happily do it, but I have to say 'who is doing reading with dd2 tonight' he just doesn't think of it unless I say it.

We both have a strict no drink/drive policy. And every takeaway night he will have a drink before we order in food (we always collect as we refuse to pay delivery charge on top) because he just doesn't think! It doesn't occur to him that once the kids are in bed, it's our take away night & one of us has to collect food. It is ALWAYS me who thinks that I won't drink, he never does.

LauraBridges it isn't about splitting the chores & always doing your own jobs, my dh is fab at chores. These are the little things. The constantly having to remind where you keep the tupperwear tubs for leaftovers (even tho they never move) the passwords for his online accounts.

Like someone said, it's the not being able to just turn off at the risk of someone needing some inane bit of information!

Oh dear...bit of a rant there...

I don't think anyone is saying most men are shit.

Fwiw, my incredibly scientific and rigorous research over 20 years would tell me that 10% of men are wonderful, 10% are utterly appalling and the rest fall on the spectrum from 'ok' to 'good'.

differentnameforthis - why don't you just take turns getting the takeaway, or pay the delivery charge? Next time he asks for passwords say "I don't know" until he learns to remember them. I do think many situations on this thread could be easily changed.

different, that is the interesting thing. Was it because I earned 10x what he did or had slightly longer hours or had 2 weeks maternity leave or am a feminist that the "little things" were remembered by my children's father?

Eg I didn't even think about the dentist as he always took the children, he remembered how often they went, he diarised it, he fixed up the appointments and took them and I never reminded him or thought about it.

I think there is a difference in the balance of power in the house between different posters. if DP was supposed to drive somewhere but had a drink instead, I would either collect it once but say the next time we'd get a delivery or just get him to call the takeaway and get them to deliver.

then the next time either he would collect the takeaway or call back to ask the to deliver.

but what would not happen is me collect the takeaway more than once, if at all.

and he would not expect me to take up his slack. which of course makes the whole thing much easier.