to Sometimes get fed up being the pivotal person in my house?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

Had a bit of a melt - down today, for many reasons.

I know that there really is no escape, but I seem to be the one who:

reminds,
decides,
repeats,
Is asked what/where/wgen/who/how,
and so on.

Does anyone else get fed up with nothing seeming to happen unless they provides the encouragement or urging or reminding or deciding to get it done?

I must say it's great now that my girls have got older and are helping out, they very rarely ask how, where and why, they are just keen to be independent. Then in walks DH, asking 'is this milk fresh?' or 'where's the number for the bank' or 'what have you done to the computer' and looks a complete fool.

" can you find me a council tax bill? "

Oh yes. Husband bought a car a month ago and the paperwork requests were breathtaking. Mostly because in our office my desk rests atop a tall set of filing drawers all that are labeled such as: car, passports, utilities, council tax, school records, insurance, etc. Within these drawers they are just dated, nothing mysterious. Still can't find anything.

I agree that lack of resources can make it very difficult. If I hadn't got the earning capacity to afford my own mortgage AND child care, would I have left? Its a difficult question. Maybe not. But I still think that would have been the wrong decision as ten or twenty years of that and I would have been utterly bitter and destroyed.

I guess it is a question of emotional versus material poverty and which is worse. I accept that if you have children in certain schools etc, then the dilemma is even more acute.

My advice to my daughter, if she ever seeks it out would be to try and tackle these kind of problems in a relationship head on and in early days BEFORE you get shackled to the nice house in the nice area with the nice schools.

I do think from all I have seen and experienced that these problems are evident early on but when we are 'in love' we often put our head in the sand and hope that he will change or we will learn to put up with it, because after all, aren't relationships supposed to be 'difficult'. (this is a massive and dangerous lie I think).

You need to distinguish between the man who is a bit hopeless but basically kind and good and he tries in other ways - I think my dad falls into this category. I was very happy to find him in a clean and tidy house being expertly looked after by my brother so mum clearly succeeded in bringing up him to be a decent and competent man.

But I do firmly remain of the belief that there is a toxic subset of men who behave in the ways described on this thread because they CAN, because they fundamentally don't like or respect women, because your place is in the kitchen and god help you if you try and step out of 'your' domain.

I might stay with the bumbler if he loved me and showed it in other ways. But the other type of man is a dangerous abuser and I would hope my daughter never, ever gets involved with one like that. If she did, I would do everything I could to help her leave.

Yes Spero if I knew then what I know now etc...

As I said, it's a critical time right now so it's out of the question but I am determined to make an independent life with someone that puts me before his comfort. I'm fully prepared to move away if needs be.

Money is an issue - I can't be the only person who can't afford to live where I grew up, this cuts people off from their community support network. Now I've built a new support network in a different area but I still couldn't afford to live here independently. My mother won't take us in (I've asked) because she doesn't want to be 'part of anything that tears apart my family'.

So move away it has to be. But I can't do that if it jeopardises my children's wellbeing and so has to be considered very carefully.

But we were actually talking about things like 'how to find a council tax bill in a filing system'. So I will be happy to stop talking about myself now.

As Ive always worked this doesnt hapoen at mine, except with finances as dh is dyslexic with numbers.

of course any action that jeopardises children's well being has to be thought through very, very carefully.

What worries me however are the number of women who don't think it hurts their children to see their mother being treated with disrespect or that it is ok for children to grow up being taught that 'this' is how relationships work.

I think that can be very, very damaging in the long term for children's emotional health and their ability to make good, safe choices as adults about who they chose to spend their time with.

So again, something I think has to be put in the mix when making decisions. It is very difficult I know. But I am exasperated with myself for wasting so much of my life with someone who fundamentally didn't value me or care about me and who just wanted a housekeeper he might occasionally have sex with when he could be bothered.

I don't want anyone else to sleepwalk into this kind of life. Of course, if you are fully aware of what is going on and making conscious choices for the time being, then I respect that.

But I can't stop thinking about the eating dinner from the bin thread and the poster who thought it was perfectly ok to have a partner who left her without money to buy nappies, because he worked long hours and couldn't be expected to be aware of the fundamental and basic needs of his children.

Chilling. Really chilling.

I am exasperated with myself for wasting so much of my life with someone who fundamentally didn't value me or care about me and who just wanted a housekeeper he might occasionally have sex with when he could be bothered.

I echo that. And I learned it at my mothers knee. My dad got a new car every three years, smoked and drank, but my mum told me that there were times she couldn't afford sanitary towels. She seemed to get a kind of perverse pride out of this. I didn't plan to model her behaviour but I found it hard to address the inequality issues in my relationship without feeling like a harpy, and I overlooked important red flags because I didn't hear what I was being told.

But children suffer emotionally when and after their parents split too.

NFMP - some women in unequal relationships competed on the martyrdom stakes. It gave them a sense of self-worth.

Of course children suffer emotionally after their parents split. Who here denies that?

It is a question of balancing harm. You have to weigh up the cost to your children's emotional wellbeing of leaving as against staying and letting them witness your continued abuse.

It is a very difficult question and I accept that only hindsight will tell us if we got the balance right.

But this should not be used as an excuse to refuse to confront the issue - I can't go because it will upset the children if I leave their dad. Well yes, it probably will but what of the corrosive and long term effects on them of seeing their father mistreat their mother and worse, their mother putting up with it?

What message does that give both boys AND girls?

You have to be careful though that you and the children are not leaving merely becuase he wont put his pants in the laundry basket. It is a balance, yes.

I dont think that all hope is lost in an uneven housework and work relationship.

I dont know any woman with a partner and a family who doesnt have to do all this. My husband has perfected the art of stupidity to escape from all responsibility. Except for the central heating thermostat - he definately thinks he's in charge there. Hah!

This morning is a prime example of so many of the complaints here. Got up with DD, went to make her milk and cereal - no milk. He'd used it up last night and neither replaced it nor told me it needed replacing. The nearest shop wont be open for another hour.

His excuse is that she can 'have something else' and I should have noticed anyway. She's 2 and always has milk and cereal first thing so now shes upset.

Infuriating.

I do agree no one should end a relationship with young children involved either lightly or for trivial reasons.

But what worries me is the things these men do are NOT trivial. Take your example of pants on the floor. It is no more effort to put the pants in the dirty laundry bin, as requested by your wife, who is then happy to take responsibility for putting them in the wash.

But time and time and time again you simply ignore this perfectly reasonable request and you drop your dirty pants on the floor for your housekeeper, er I mean wife to pick up.

This shows zero respect for your partner. I think it is actually quite an aggressive and hateful thing to do, particularly when your partner has said how upset this makes her.

Fair enough, if this is the only thing he does like that and the rest of the time he is loving and caring. But I bet that is only the tip of a nasty iceberg in terms of his behaviour.

My ex never picked up clothes. In the end I got a large wicker basket, put it by his side of the bed and just stuffed things in whenever I tripped over them. He just left stuff to fester. Interestingly, this was indicative of his whole approach to life.

The degree of anguish and upset shown by some women on this thread clearly indicates they don't find their partners behaviour trivial but they are also being asked to deal with their guilt at getting upset, for being 'unreasonable'.

I don't think they are unreasonable at all. They are asking to be treated as equal partners in a relationship, which surely is fundamental?

Found this last night and feeling compelled to reply - know how u feel OP and others. Am being treated for cancer and have seen exactly what would happen if I was not here - this year we missed the road tax and MOT because I was not on the ball and now youngest (3) is on anti-biotics and because it's all down to me we missed 2 doses yesterday.

So basically anything outside of eating and dressing (and only then if necessary) would get left, but the upside is no one would care about it if I wasn't here.

Sorry if this sounds like self indulgent moaning but it does make me fume (and feel over burdened) how much is left to me gaaah

AnnaLegovah that attitude is disgusting, not the being thoughless but "you should have noticed anyway" grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I have delegated areas of responsibility to dh, it was painful as he went through the learning curve and his standards aren't as high as mine - but who says I'm right and he's wrong? What does irritate me is how his family think I'm some right dictorial cow to have achieved it they seem to admire and dislike my attitude in equal measures.

Can I add my marriage is in very bad shape for other reasons but at least I know that if I need to leave my H is capable of running the house adequately! I've also been training the dc to me a lot more helpful and take on responsibility for chores and contribute to the running of the house - something both our sets of parents failed to do.

Some of the posts on this thread are very chilling spero, I agree.
Dh doesn't have as high standards as I do.
That's fine I am a bit anal
But we - his family - come first.
He parents the children with me. He doesn't "babysit" (oh how that phrase enrages me when used by fathers) or leave me short of money or food.
We try to work as a team and hopefully the dc see that and will emulate it in their later lives.

'Who is to say I am right and he is wrong'?

Any action that jeopardises the health and safety of your children is utterly wrong and unacceptable - so for eg, not making sure they take their medication, not wiping up liquids from a slippery floor.

Any action that shows you selfishly prioritise the needs of small children over your own is pretty wrong and needs addressing. - for eg drinking all the milk and not replacing it then not giving a damn.

Yes, I wouldn't fuss over whether or not he refuses to dust skirting boards every day, but you like it done.

But isn't it interesting that these men won't distinguish between relatively trivial household tasks and the stuff that might directly impact on the well being of their children?

What kind of people does this make them? (Rhetorical question, I know the answer)

Dammit! Meant to say if you prioritise YOUR own needs over children ... That sentence came out a bit wrong!

Shows how the patriarchy has done its work well...

Marmite. Very sorry to hear that. Hope everything goes your way.

Reading about DCs and chores ...DP uses that as an excuse to be a lazy arse...
Yesterday DP & DD2 (just 7) were in one room, I was in another...
I heard something drop, nothing said etc so called what was that?
DD2 had knocked a cup of milk over (onto laminate floor) I said to DP are you dealing with that? He said ok
Walked into room 30 mins later - spill still on floor with a piece of sodden kitchen roll in the middle - why hasn't this been cleaned up?
DP (watching TV on his netbook wearing earphones) - said well I told DD2 to do it. She should be able to clean up after herself. DD2 said she didn't know what cloth to use and the kitchen roll wasn't working..and 'daddy couldn't hear me because he is wearing his earphones'
Say the living room is a mess (usually after I say something) DP will sit on a chair supervising while DD1(13) & 2 tidy up pointing things out to them, etc. His excuse is that it is their mess - DD1 especially will get mad and they argue - her view is he isn't helping and some of it is his mess - like he will say take this plate (his) into the kitchen etc...he will say most of it is theirs....

And if I won't do stuff he will get DD1 to do it...yesterday someone sent him a MMS - his phone mustn't be set up to receive them (I'm not getting involved). It told him what to do and I confirmed - go to the web page address and follow the instructions and I walked away...he kept saying it wasn't working and did he really have to type that whole thing in etc etc...I said I don't know how it works and ignored - the next thing I know he had DD1 doing it for him. I know he isn't good with computers etc - but I think he cba to type it in.
As for the sexist thing ...I don't know because he has a (male) friend helping him with his boat and he has this friend finding things for him on ebay and giving him print outs etc...I'm surprised his friend hasn't got pissed off -but then he seems like he likes helping and he does love all things boats ...

Trouble is Spero, that there are some women as well who dont look after their children well enough.
Well, well enough for social services not to become involved, but there are more than enough homes in Britain that have way more than just dirty underwear on the floor. And that is done by both parents.
There are some pretty slatternly [if that isnt an offensive word] women around as well.
[and that is not meant to belittle the posts on here about men who sooo do not pull their weight.