Was I Unreasonable to this child?

[iamsoannoyed]

I was at a party with DD (aged 5)- she was a guest, not her party. It was at a place which has a soft play area beside the cafe (party rooms upstairs). The children had just played ten-pin bowling, and were coming through to play in the soft play area.

I was sitting with some of the other mums having coffee when one of DDs friends, whose mum I am reasonably friendly with and has been to our house/DD has been to hers, came over. She poked me in the stomach and said "haha, your kid came last". Those were her exact words.

I was a . I said to her "please don't talk to me like that, it's very rude. And you can't be the best at everything, so it's not very kind to tease people for being last.". I did not shout or raise my voice and did not get out of my chair.

She went red, ran off and I thought no more of it.

Her granny had brought her to the party. I don't think granny had noticed this exchange, but one of the other mums did and we both just raised an eyebrow. This little girl has been known to throw strops with the other children if she doesn't get her way and is also known as a bit of a madam at times, but is basically a normal little girl.

I got a phone call tonight from the girls mum to say she was very cross that I had "disciplined" her daughter. She thought I should have waited until I got home and then called her to raise my concerns.

I explained what had happened, and stated while I thought it was rude and fairly unpleasant behaviour on her DDs part and she needed a reminder that you shouldn't speak to adults like that, I didn't think it warranted a phone call home after the party (and hours after the "incident") as that was just making a mountain out of a molehill. Had the girl's mother been there, I would have mentioned what had happened.

I imagine her DD would probably have forgotten all about the incident by the end of the party, and would have been a bit confused as to what the fuss was about.

Was I unreasonable? I really genuinely don't think I was.

I would expect any other adult to have acted similarly if my DD had spoken to them like this (and would have been fairly mortified that she had done so).

TBH, I think I should just avoid play dates with DD and this girl, as I will not have a child in my house who I cannot even ask to behave in an acceptable manner in my own home in case her parents are upset by this.

So who will teach this child if her parents treat her like a little princess who can do no wrong?

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree there then. Tbh, the idea of not correcting a child is something I've only read about on MN. In my circle of family,friends and acquaintances this happens frequently and is perfectly acceptable. The idea of sitting and saying nothing while allowing a child to continue with undesirable behaviour would be viewed with complete confusion- checking them is viewed as doing the parent a favour in their absence. Maybe it's a village thing.

It does take a village, it really does. Some parents fall short of course it's up to correct a child if they behave badly to you like what happened to the op. Granny wasn't around, mabey she should have been more attentive

Doesn't seem to me the OP thought it was her 'role to teach other children manners' either.

OP was reacting to the fact the nearly 6 year old behaved badly to her personally. She did not go and intervene in something the child was doing elsewhere. She was not reacting to a comment she overheard. She reacted to the fact the child behaved rudely towards her.

She was telling her not to come up to her, poke her in the stomach and say something unpleasant about her own daughter.

And she did it in a brief comment that started with the word 'please' and which was delivered in a calm and quiet voice.

What if the girl,had gone up to a stranger in a cafe and poked them in tge stomach, she might have got a lot worse than what op had said to her

the idea of not correcting a child is something I've only read about on MN. In my circle of family,friends and acquaintances this happens frequently and is perfectly acceptable

well said Wheelie

If I can tell an adult I find their behaviour poor, then I certainly can tell a cognisant child the same. I don't see the difference, frankly.

What, so you think if the OP hadn't said this, the child would still be poking people in the stomach and saying silly things aged 40?

If you think you are the manners police for other people's five year old children, go right ahead. A lot of parents won't like it though and that's the risk you take and that the OP is now getting called over.

adoptmama I agree. I find it very hard to believe that the posters on this thread who never tell off other people's children would sit back and say nothing if a child was poking them and being unpleasant about their own child.

I don't care if parents don't like it. Maybe they should try doing some parenting then there would be no need for other people to say anything because the parent/carer/granny would deal with it?

Don't be silly thetallesttower. What's the point of doing anything with children, if you are rolling out the old 'will they be doing it at 40' chestnut.

and yes, if any of the children we attend parties with were to come and poke me in the stomach I would tell them not to do it as it is rude.

and if a friend of my children comes up to me to mock my child, I will tell them it isn't nice.

and i expect their parents will do the same if any of my kids were ever so ill mannered as to behave in this way.

Risk I take?
I'd be delighted if a precious momma came to take me to task, she wouldn't do it twice.
Funny though, in 19 years of child rearing, surrounded by kids in a daily basis, it has happened only once and she apologised to me.

But the child wouldn't have thought, I know, I'll go up to that lady and poke her and be unpleasant about her child, did she?

She thoughtlessly bounced up to her at a party, got her attention in a five year old way and said something silly.

She won't again, that's true. But I fail to see that this was an aggressive act from a five year old against a mum at a party, it was a mindless one which is not the same thing.

Maybe it's a village thing.

Maybe the village that raises the child needs to be a group of people who know the child very well, have regular and frequent contact with them in lots of different situations, understand them in the context of the style of parenting they are used to, etc. They would also have a deeper relationship with the child which would temper the impact of the correction.

People who quote that it takes a village to raise a child are often using to justify a relative stranger feeling able to have an input.

My DCs have grown up in a village, within a circle of close friends and their families, spending a great deal of time together. I'd be and have been happy for any of the other parents to step in and correct my child. I wouldn't necessarily feel the same about someone who didn't know them so well doing it and I am certain that the impact on my child would be different too.

How well you know the child and the child knows you does make a significant difference.

Wheelie I was replying to Youcat about who will teach the child manners. It is not critical to point out every instance of bad manners at a children's party to have nice well-behaved children. My friends don't do it, our children are nice, the OP sounds like she enjoyed telling off this little girl and rolling her eyes with her friends about the child. Now her mother doesn't like it, that's the consequence of taking the responsibility of telling other people's kids off.

No the tall not all 5 year olds are like that! She was being very rude to poke someone in tge stomach and make fun of another child

YANBU at all! You were sticking up for your dd in a reasonable way. Children should be pulled up when they say deliberately unkind things to others.

True, Goldmandra- however in the OP's case, she does know the little girl reasonably well. The child has been to her house and is friends with her DD.

Thetallesttower I don't think the little girl was being deliberately aggressive either, but the outcome is the same regardless. Most 'bad' behaviour from small children is as a result of thoughtlessness, it still needs checked at times.

Goldmandra I agree with you, because my husband comes from a 'it takes a village' culture except that this can mean random older ladies upbraiding your children for very little in the street, for things like standing in their way accidentally, or walking on a wall (not their home). They don't do it nicely either. There is such a contrast between this and parenting in a more communal way in which different people are in charge/more shared responsibility. However, my husband's culture, this means you have to directly tell people not to smack your children or remove them and pierce their ears or feed them things you don't want them to have as they would think it normal to do so.

I think in general in the UK people don't parent other people's children much and have a much greater expectation of autonomy and get pretty affronted if anyone tries to interfere with this, hence why if you start telling off other people's children, you do risk getting a mouthful unless you know them very well and you are pretty sure the parents are happy for you to do so. Preventing harm is a bit different- I would for sure have said 'be careful, don't hurt me' if I was genuinely hurt by a five year old poking.

Tallesttower i really think you are projecting a lot here onto the OP. She never rolled her eyes - she raised an eyebrow with another mum after the short interaction was done. A normal, non-verbal communication between 2 adults which bascially means 'blimey i am a bit surprised by that'. She hasn't pointed out every instance of bad manners at a party - she has reacted to one incident when the child (almost 6 years of age) sought her out, poked her for attention in the stomach and then proceeded to say something mean about the OPs own child. She didn't tell off the other child. She simply said 'please don't speak to me like that, it's very rude' and then pointed out that we can't all be the best and it is mean to tease. That is not telling off. It is a very mild and measured rebuke to a piece of rude behaviour that was made directly to the OP. She wasn't being 'the manners police' or doing anything aggressive.

So the OP telling a child not to poke her in the stomach and mock other children for losing has turned into the OP deriving some sort of dubious enjoyment at the chance to discipline a child for no good reason?

Child is behaving undesirably in a way that also involves the OPs child and the OPs personal space. OP gently tells the child not to do it as it isn't nice. This is a complete non issue.

You are definitely projecting thetallesttower Telling a child not to laugh at other children and poke adults in the stomach is poles apart from random strangers physically assaulting other people's children. You obviously have issues with your husband's culture (quite rightly so, by the sounds of it) but I do think it's clouding your judgement a little here

Yes, you may be right, it may be that the OP really gave a very mild rebuke, but the plain fact is it must have been upsetting for the child to have gone home and reported it and for the mum to call. If she had said 'oh, be careful of my tummy, off you go now and play' then she wouldn't be having this phone call. You do interfere with other children at your own risk because people are precious about their children- the child may indeed be rude and the mum may indeed be ineffective/over-protective, but if you don't go round telling other people's children off when you don't know them well and at a party when they are all over-excited, you don't get into these situations.

'oh, be careful of my tummy, off you go now and play'

I fail to see how that ^ is going to have any affect on this child's future behaviour.

I also don't see anything wrong with a child being upset over being pulled up over something. Maybe she'll learn from the experience.