To think this wasn't offensive?

[CasioBlues]

I work in an office, and after meetings, there are often spare sandwiches that are offered around.

I work in one group. A group of people of a similar level, all friends, were talking today and someone mentioned these sandwiches were brought to their group by a female member of staff, and also friend. A friend in another group mentioned sandwiches also came around to their group by a female member of staff.

A male friend in my group quipped about the member of staff who brings them around "what a slag!". A few of us laughed, one friend found it really offensive.

I think among friends, it was obviously a joke on the "promiscuity" of sandwiches, but I'm prepared to admit I was wrong to think it wasn't offensive. It wasn't very professional, but among friends?

Yes, and yes thanks

yes, and yes thanks

I doesn't seem to have been very effective. If it had been, you and your colleagues would be better informed. Does your instituation have Investors in Diversity? A recent Matrix assessment? Do you not have to evidence your compliance with the Equality Act 2010 for Ofsted purposes?

Would you challenge the use of the word in "friendly" conversation if you heard a student using it?

Genuinely, where do you stand on Pub Landlord (Al Murray humour)? Is that not a recognised form of humour?

I try to avoid Al Murray. I don't like his humour, and yes, I find a lot of it unfunny and sexist.

I've seen people it could be seen as fighting slut shaming sexist behaviour by ridiculing it for nigh on 30 years. It's unthinking and the "ridiculing it" bit is generally a justification after the event.

It's a classic bullying tactic: "Can't you take a joke?"

I love Al Murray and his act is based on taking the piss out of sexist, patronising small-minded, middle aged middle Englanders. He is funny, but only when you know that he's a very clever man having a dig at people like the OP's friend. It's called Irony but I seriously doubt the OP's friend was being remotely ironic.

Actaully I have no idea whether the OP's friend is remotely like the people Al Murray spoofs, but I don't think he was being clever and ironic either.

I'd be interested to know what the disciplinary consequences are for failing to challenge unacceptable language used by students

Ah, so now you're trying the "our humour as academics is so much more sophisticated than your plebeian humour so you don't fully understand just how subtle and subversive the joke actually was" tack, are you?

Keep breathing that rarified air, OP...

Al Murray performs in a setting where he knows that people appreciate his comedy because they are paying money to see his act.

I doubt that he would make the same sorts of jokes during a business meeting, because that would be inappropriate and I'm pretty sure he is clever enough to know the difference.

I wish I knew which Uni i should be encouraging the DC to avoid

"Ah, so now you're trying the "our humour as academics is so much more sophisticated than your plebeian humour so you don't fully understand just how subtle and subversive the joke actually was" tack, are you?"

If she is Select, then I hope all the ethical approval forms and mode of questioning have been approved.

YANBU. I've worked in similar places where there's banter like this, and I would have laughed and moved on. PuppyMonkey describes what I'm imagining well, and I'm also minded to agree with the OP when she said the comment could be seen as fighting slut-shaming sexist behaviour by ridiculing it. I can think of numerous (mixed-gender) groups of friends who'd take it this way.

The Jew analogy really doesn't work. It hinges on the incorrect and racist stereotype that Jewish people hoard money. The OP's friend's joke hinges on a word which refers specifically to sexual promiscuity. If the joke had been told in mirror image to the 'Jew' example, the friend would have said "she takes sandwiches to the other group too? What a woman!" Not the same at all.

Being 'a committed feminist' obviously means different things to different people. I consider myself to be one, live my life as one and read stacks of related literature, yet I'm afraid I snorted at the idea that an ironic quip between friends about promiscuity (and sandwiches) contributes to 'rape culture'. Just seriously, no. This kind of disproportionate comment doesn't do the feminist cause any favours imho.

For what it's worth, the people obsessed with finding out who the post-docs or lecturers were in this scenario, or what training there's been, are missing the point. If you want to argue that the quip was offensive, it'd be offensive whoever said it. Ditto those who have made rude remarks about the OP's intelligence - as far as I can see she's been nothing but calm and fair in her posts. You go, girl!

OP, you don't have the right to use that word and say it's o.k. because of context!

That is not your right, nor your colleagues.

What don't you get about that?

If you want to argue that the quip was offensive, it'd be offensive whoever said it

Agreed. I don't think that renders my questions about policies, procedures and training irrelevant though.

Dimittis but it's not a quip on the promiscuity of sandwiches. It's calling a person a name. A vile name.

I wouldn't call my male colleague a knobhead.
Just. Wrong.

Applauds Dimittis somebody with a sense of proportion at last!

Of course it's wrong no matter who says it. I don't think anybody is disputing that. What I think people are curious about is if this 'joke' is being directed down a line of command so the person on the receiving end (who may be more junior) may be an easier target than saying the same thing to a head of department (which you can bet neither the OP or her mate would dare do).

I also believe that if the OP is for example a young women in her 20's rather than someone whose career is more established and has had to fight up through the ranks of male domination within academia, a little more slack would have been cut.

of interest perhaps

Wrong bloody link! Hang on a mo.

Dear lord are you all 11 years old?
YABU for finding it funny.

Casio the joke you quoted simply isn't funny.

I thought it was funny! Not LOL funny, but smiley funny.

It's really so simple. The joke is only funny if people 'get it'. People only 'get it' if there is a common understanding about the subtext of the joke. In this situation, the subtext is 'women who offer themselves to more than one man at the same time are sluts'.

If you don't find the subtext funny, because you realise that women have died to overcome the stereotyping and discrimination that the subtext promotes, then you won't find the joke funny, no matter how clever the play of words.

People who laugh at such jokes are either:

-sexist themselves and have no problem with the concept of women as sluts.
OR
-not thinking of what the subtext is, but subconsciously recognising it in order to find the joke 'funny.'

You probably were, as a group, not thinking (except for your one sensible colleague), but once it's been pointed out to you, it's best to take on board the subtext and realise that it was inappropriate to tell that joke in the office and inappropriate to laugh at it.

OP - is it possible that the friend/work colleague who was offended by the use of the word "slag" was more offended by the attitude implicit in the person using the word than the word itself? In the sense that people who like to push the boundaries of what is acceptable speech in the workplace or even social situations can be a bit annoying to some, who are more sensitive to these nuances than others? e.g. I sometimes think some people have additional agendas and get a thrill out of shocking an audience.

Alternatively, you can just be more engaged and in tune with your colleague's oddities and lack of tact than the colleague who was offended.

I think its a surprising and unpleasant word to use in the workplace, even in a joking context. Without going into all the derogatory sexist meanings in detail.

I'm a bit surprised you are so immune to this that you felt the need to start a thread on here about someone else being offended by it, rather than accepting their being offended. Its a horrible word, and not one I would want to hear when I'm at work - it would be bad enough in a pub or at a party but I could choose to move away from the people saying it.

I'm also surprised that if you are an academic and presumably also therefore a lecturer, that you describe yourself in your OP as "working in an office". Without wishing to cross examine you, your workplace would surely be the lecture hall, tutorial room, library or even home, just as much as an office.

If I heard a student say this in a seminar about another student they would be pulled up and told why such sexist language was unacceptable. And I think a lot of my lovely undergraduates would join in indeed, I could probably leave the explanation to my students. They'd run rings around the OP I suspect calling herself an academic is a great big fat red herring--