To think this wasn't offensive?

[CasioBlues]

I work in an office, and after meetings, there are often spare sandwiches that are offered around.

I work in one group. A group of people of a similar level, all friends, were talking today and someone mentioned these sandwiches were brought to their group by a female member of staff, and also friend. A friend in another group mentioned sandwiches also came around to their group by a female member of staff.

A male friend in my group quipped about the member of staff who brings them around "what a slag!". A few of us laughed, one friend found it really offensive.

I think among friends, it was obviously a joke on the "promiscuity" of sandwiches, but I'm prepared to admit I was wrong to think it wasn't offensive. It wasn't very professional, but among friends?

[brdgrl]

Oh, believe me, I have no hope that the OP will change her views in the slightest.
I'm also not really that bothered by how many people "take my views on board". See, they actually aren't "my views", as if I were advancing some sort of bizarre theory. At least on this thread, these are simply the views of the majority. Most people on this thread seem pretty well aware that it isn't right to use the term "slag" in any kind of environment, let alone a professional one.

Good luck with your kids' education. Bless.

[happyscouse]

Op wasn't offended, nothing you have said has convinced her she should have been (nor me). She does not accept your arguments . You cannot brow beat her into agreeing with you and good for her.Your posts are screaming "listen to me I'm an academic, I'm a real one, i am right you are wrong" Cobalt said it best upthread if you maybe learn't to put your opinions across in a less hectoring and yes I'll say it again snobbish way people might be more prepared to take your views on board. Anyway I'm following op off this thread now I will finish by saying as others have said I would be happy for Op to be part of my childrens education.

[brdgrl]

Well put, upthechimney. I would only add one thing, which is that certain fields demand an understanding of the sort of ideological arguments being discussed (and mocked or absolutely misunderstood by the OP) on this thread. One could not possibly be a satisfactory university lecturer in (for example) the areas of political science, literary studies, media studies, anthropology, history...without 'getting' this.

The OP's profession and subject area is absolutely relevant in these circumstances.

I suppose maybe it would be akin to someone posting that they were a medical doctor, but failing to understand or be able to engage in discussions about basic theories of biology.

The humanities disciplines are built on this kind of discourse. Anyone whose response to that discourse is basically "oh, stop taking it all so seriously!" is showing themselves to lack credibility. That is why I said that I hoped she didn't work in humanities or social sciences. Nothing to do with snobbery, unless it is snobbish to expect an academic to act and speak like an academic.

[Blistory]

No but one would hope that being employed at a university in a professional capacity would indicate an open and questioning mind.

The OP clearly stated that she was prepared to admit that she was wrong if it was offensive and yet continues to insist that it wasn't offensive.

Calling a woman a slag is regressive and judgemental and has no place in today's world. Her inability to see that or accept that goes against everything that is expected of an academic.

The fact that many posters have an issue with the terminology, particularly in a professional environment, would indicate that it is offensive to many and surely a sensible person would therefore agree that it would be more prudent to refrain from using it.

[happyscouse]

Up the chimney you have made these two statements in your posts..
"i suspect calling herself an academic is a great big red fat herring" and
"although actually i don't think OP has ever been near a university"

Both crossed through i don't understand why.

It appears you are calling Op a liar with no basis to do so, is that sort of name calling OK by your standards?

Oh and one last point going to university does not necessarily make someone "the brightest and the best"

[CSIJanner]

Actually, in defence of Casio, I've heard and witnessed such exchanges within a univeristy environment. Think old boys, male dominated scenarios. The women within the departments had objected - I think it took pointing out that within 15years, we could refer to their daughters in the same way then? The sad thing is some of the jokers are considered close friends - some even of Professor status with some influence. It happens. I'm not say its right, but it does. They get pulled up on it and then in my friends cases, it doesn't occur again. And I agree - OP has been measured and good natured in her replies.

I think the real question is when the next round of sandwiches comes around, will similar comments be made after a colleague objected?

[EightySeventy]

I agree Cobalt. OP has been good nature and mature.

Actually upthechimney I'd be slightly more worried if you were lecturing my children. I find your style very personal and attacking.

[ZombiesAreClammyDodgers]

And would hope that adult DC would have enough self esteem as a woman to not be happy about someone calling a colleague a slag, even if she couldn't do much about it because of specific circumstances.

[ZombiesAreClammyDodgers]

I have to agree that I wouldn't want someone who didn't understand why calling a woman a slag in the workplace is wrong, to teach my DC.

[cobaltcow]

No, I even agree and understand some of the views and arguments. It's the heavy handed and insulting way that some have banged on. Constantly attacking and belittling the Op and bringing her intelligence, ability to do her job, insulting her character etc that makes me want to back away from them and run the other way.

OP has been incredibly tolerant and good natured.

[SofaCanary]

Dog with a bone springs to mind.

[ilovesooty]

How on earth can you make a judgement of someone's ability to engage a class and decide they must be boring on the basis of their views on appropriate language in the workplace?

[cobaltcow]

From what Casio has said, I'd have no problems with her teaching my children as she seems to be quite gracious and good natured. You are becoming ridiculous now. Some of the other posters who have been banging on on on for days now in this OTT heavy handed manner - yes I would have a problem with as the kids probably wouldn't attend classes due to being bored to within an inch or their lives and lectured to.

[CasioBlues]

Snob!

[UptheChimney]

why do you think op "has never been near a university" the snobbery of that statement is astounding
Absolutely nothing to do with snobbery. At all.

It's to do with:

• the specious disingenuous sophistry of the OP's attempts to 'prove' she's right;
  
• the OP's apparent disregard for sexist language and sanguinity in the face of sexism in the workplace
  
• the OP's apparent disregard of any guidelines in her workplace to do with appropriate language;
  
• given the above, the idea that the OP is involved in helping to form the minds of our best & brightest young people.
  
  Would you like a whole lot of links to actual student testimony to the harmful, and abusive side of the 'lad culture,' rape culture, and slut-shaming which is having such a harmful effect on young women?
  
  Do you think it's appropriate that people charged with the responsibility to educate and enlighten find calling a woman a 'slag' in the workplace is not offensive and inappropriate?
  
  You see, I'd rather assume that the OP is not actually involved in teaching young adults, with the attitude displayed on this thread. Because if she were, she is unfit to do so with the attitude towards sexist language she's demonstrated on this thread.

[abitsc]

Yes, I hope the OP is a physicist or mathematician, as she's clearly not equipped to teach home economics or PE.

[brdgrl]

At first I was hoping the OP worked in the hard sciences, because she's clearly not equipped to work in the humanities or social sciences. But given the difficulties with statistics, or even counting, I have revised my view.

[DamnBamboo]

Dear god, the typos above are shocking, pressed post message too soon.

Let's try again.

The statement that you seem to think is arrogant, you have clearly taken out of context. It was actually in response to the person who said that if you think it's wrong to say it, then it's still wrong, no matter who actually says it (post doc or lecturer) and who specifically directed their comment at those who were asking if the OP was a lecturer or a post doc.

So my response was just reaffirming (for those who do agree it's wrong to say it) that yes, of course nobody who agrees it's wrong, is disputing that.

[DamnBamboo]

And the arrogance displayed here,

"Of course it's wrong no matter who says it. I don't think anybody is disputing that." - yes some have actually and some do find it funny but obviously if you say different.

No not arrogance, and I'll be polite and assume you've not read the whole thread that statement was in response to the a person who said that it's wrong to say it, on matter who actually says it and who directed their comment at those who were asking if the OP was a lecturer or a post doc. I was just reaffirming (for those who do agree it's wrong to say it) that yes, of course nobody who agrees it's wrong, is disputing that.

Sorry you found that hard to grasp! Not difficult though is it.

[Martorana]

People used to use the expression "working like a nigger" to mean working hard. Would it have been funny to say that she was the "sandwich nigger" if she was dashing around handing sandwiches out to all and sundry?

[YoYoItsYoyoTheYoyoYo]

No, there's nothing I can say which would top cobaltcow's posts, which nail how I feel perfectly.

[falulahthecat]

Some people just have a dark and un-PC sense of humour

Enjoying Brass Eye etc. is having a dark/un-pc sense of humour.
This was a childish throw away derogatory comment. Wouldn't have offended me, but certainly wouldn't have found it funny. It's sort of a non-joke/comment a teenager at the back of the bus would make.

[wokeupwithasmile]

I find the comment (I do think these should be defined as 'comments', not as 'jokes') deeply upsetting and I would be very uncomfortable in the presence of 'friends' who think that that is appropriate language. I would be uncomfortable with the idea behind the comment, not with the place in which such comment was made. In any case, I would have challenged that person especially in an academic environment, which is notoriously very patriarchal until the recent past.

I find it very problematic that you do not understand why you should fight this type of behaviour publicly and privately.

[NiceTabard]

Hmm not ever sure about that.

But still.

Calling a woman at work a slag (ha ha ha!) = No.

[NiceTabard]

If I heard a man at work call a woman a slag because she was offering sandwiches to different groups of people, I would think it was out of line. And would know that it was against equality legislation.

If he had phrased it a bit more cleverly and focussed on the sandwiches - she puts those sandwiches about a bit - or something, OK. But just to say "She's a slag" - it's a cheap, ill thought out line, and yes offensive. Calling women slags at work, for whatever reason, is not on.