AIBU to think you shouldn't discipline another child...

[MogwaiTheGremlin]

...unless it's something quite serious?

My ds is 19 months and this morning we went to a new playgroup for the first time so I didn't know any of the other mums. Ds went over to an older/bigger child and grabbed a toy car off him. The other child didn't seem too put out (no outraged squawk / crying) but I made my way over to return it to the child as he had clearly been playing with it. Before I got there the child's mother / carer had grabbed it back off ds and said quite loudly "No! Don't snatch. He was playing with it".

I was a bit miffed because I wouldn't discipline a child I didn't know and also I try to save "No" for serious crimes. We are teaching ds to pass things nicely (failed!) and an adult grabbing something sets a bad example. Also because she raised her voice a few people turned to look and it made ds' behaviour seem much worse than it was. Just a bit embarrassing as we were new.

I realise it's not a big deal but AIBU?

YY to all of that Supercosy

Most normal people would consciously avoid raising their voice at another family's 1½ year old, I think.

Not doing that, seems likely to be the reason for the question - if she did "raise her voice" a your child, YANBU.

I can't imagine that anyone has condoned snatching or shouting at a child. The original part of the discussion centred more around the word no.

I love the comment about middle class people coming to the thread later and being more reasonable. Does that imply the first posters are common or upper class? Hmmm.

I'm intrigued by the sound of your parenting IceBeing - you don't tell your children off, because you want them to develop their own sense of personal morality? I'm interested in just how a toddler develops personal morality? Do you understand the role of a parent or that of a teacher, is to guide, sometimes through allowing freedom to make mistakes, and also equally importantly to make direct statements about right from wrong to avoid fanning around - especially when said bad behaviour negatively impacts others? Would you still let them find out the hard way?

Well I think the OP has got it right about the word 'no' being overused when a child is essentially still a '1' year old baby.

I understand that you were going to discipline your child and the other woman just beat you to it. I don't think it's particularly a big deal though.
But can you please explain how you deal with a toddler's misbehaviour (however low-level) without using the word No?

Ah well yes that's to my own :)

I'd probably say "no" to another child although I don't shout.

I agree with OP actually. I would never tell off sometime else's child like that although frankly I wouldn't give a shit if someone took a toy off my child. But if I was in your position and my lo had taken something off someone else, I would intervene, tell her calmly that so-and-so was playing with that and maybe she could play with it when they have finished.

One person's 'fanning' around is another's 'right' way of doing things, of being an effective parent.

Nanny0gg, the OP said she was trying to limit use of the word 'no' not that she'd never use it. FWIW, I know loads of parents who think that way.

I just crouch down to his level, make eye contact and say 'ds don't touch that it's dirty' or 'ds put that back where you found it' etc and then wait for him to do as he's told - if he doesn't I remove/replace it myself and explain what I'm doing and why.

Oh and an example, 'I think they were using that first, can you give it back to them?'. If they don't I ask them to give it to me to return it. Why is 'no' needed, like it's the crime of the century?

To explain my post, I absolutely do not ever want my child doing things like snatching things off people but I really think it's ok (from my point of view) for her to learn that sometimes kids might snatch things off her. Life isn't fair. Hopefully I can educate her on the best way to react to that- ie not to snatch back or have an enormous tantrum.
And this works so far. She never snatches and if she looks like she is going to, a 'no' stops her immediately. If someone snatches something off her, she usually just does a grumpy face and then wanders off. That seems ok to me. I definitely wouldn't snatch it back and shot at the other kid because I don't want her to react like that.
Just how I like to do things.

I remember a friend visiting from America with pfb and being shocked at my " disciplining " my not so previous second born.
" we don't use the N word in our house" I was told. Me and DH were very confused as we do have a banned N word but it's certainly not NO!!!
I can imagine a small child beating the crap out of another while the parent stands ineffectually saying things like " oh no, we should have kind hands" and " I don't think X likes you biting him" or " y was very upset when you punched him in the nose, how do you think that makes him feel"

Yes yes I do say 'no' if I consider the incident to be serious / aggressive / dangerous - usually just before it happens or immediately afterwards

it is overwhelmingly understood to be the case that small children learn best by example, yet people persist in trying to enforce the rules by doing the exact opposite of what they want the child to do. Children copy. They do as their parents do
It is not all about the Ops DC though is it? There is another child involved who needs to be taught that it is not ok for people to snatch his toys from him.

OP I see your point about "no" and I tended to try and be a bit more specific than just saying "no".

But. She was specific. Sometimes I think we agonise too much over the precise wording of what we say. "No, don't snatch" is pretty much the same, to a child, as "Don't snatch".

If you want to be really radical it's thought that children understand and listen better to positive rather than negative instructions. "Don't snatch" could be interpreted as "Don't snatch, hit!" or "Don't snatch, shout loudly and then run away with it when they drop it in surprise!" or any number of things other than "Leave it alone, X has it."

BUT the point is, that broadly speaking, it's fine (and beneficial) for other parents to discipline your child. Obviously it wouldn't be OK for another adult to be aggressive to them, but simply telling them "no" and/or that something isn't OK is fine - and you need to accept this even if you do personally think that it's better to use positive language or try not to use no or whatever other thing.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I think you are being a tiny bit PFB! I bet if you come across this thread when your child is 5 or 6 years old you'll be .

But she didn't discipline him, she took the toy back off him and said no. Maybe you should start teaching your child that it's not nice to take. And also maybe get a grip.

I really do need to log off now. Ds is sleeping (probably worn out by all that toy snatching ) and I need to catch up on some chores drink a cup of tea in peace
Cheers

What the lady says "No, don't snatch!"

What the 19 month old understands "I no longer recall having a toy car
because I am now so intrigued by the way that funny lady's face has gone all red".

or alternatively

"I have a challenger? feeble earth woman, I can scream louder than you!"

YANBU she was OTT in her response, especially as you were bringing the toy back anyway. Bet it put you off going again! What a friendly bunch.

Oh that was a disappointing OP - I thought someone had put your DC on a naughty step or something.
But no one did actually discipline anyone.

when a child is essentially still a '1' year old baby

This is the main point here, the ops child is still a baby how can anyone condone snatching and shouting at a baby.

It beggars belief it really does.

HoppingGreen, IME it ALWAYS, the shouty, aggressive parents who tell their children off like its going out of fashion that have the most problematic children and anyway who would not intervene when their child was attacking another - a very different situation to a 19 month old old taking a toy from another, older child.

OP you have my sympathy in part here. I remember when I had my first baby, I found all this kind of stuff very hard to deal with. Being a mum is a completely new thing, and other parents have very different ways of doing things, a play group is like an office full of people who all work in a different way, there are bound to be conflicts. I have seen several threads like this over the years, where it can turn into 'oh you're one of THOSE mothers are you' and it's not nice really. People do the best they can and sometimes sarcastic responses without knowing the op's situation in detail isn't helpful. I remember reading these with my new baby on my lap, and being too scared to ever go to soft play or play groups for fear of offending one of these massively assertive MN types. I accept I was too soft and over sensitive but a lot of new mothers are, especially if they we finding the whole thing very difficult. I know your child isn't a new baby but I think the point is still relevant