Are you financially independent?

[GuybrushThreepwoodMP]

So I am massively in favour of financial equality in a relationship. DH and I have a joint account into which both our salaries go and we both have free access to this. We don't have much spare money, but we manage our general life costs and spend within our means. DH earns more than me and since we had our daughter 18 months ago, I work part time (20 hours a week). We share everything.
But I'm not financially independent am I? Because if we split up (not something that is likely to happen, but it's good to plan!), I wouldn't be able to manage. The majority of what I earn goes on childcare (in reality, we obviously party childcare from our joint money, but if I didn't work we wouldn't have to pay it at all do it's a legitimate calculation to make). Alone I would be left with maybe £300/month after childcare and not much more if I went full time. We rent in an expensive city and it's a struggle to find anything under £1000/month.
So I guess what I'm asking is how does one become truly financially independent? Do you just have to earn loads yourself- enough so that you could manage everything alone? Or doesn't it matter?

He earns more than me but I am more independent

I can drive he can't
We live in a house that would instantly be put in my name if we split and has very low rent
He pays off the car but it is in my name

If we split up he would not live with his children and I would
I would keep the house and the car, our only real assets.

So even though he earns more than me and always will, I am the more independent.

I will always to the best of notability make sure I have equal or thereabouts earnings and investments as my DH

I think the 80s/90s children were the first en maser generation to see their parents divorce (I don't know anyone with parents still together, this is aged 50s/60s) and every single woman I have ever heard of came out worst.

Judges always say a 50 something SAHM can re train but the reality is that unless you are self employed and have an amazing business idea, the workforce is extremely ageist and nobody wants a grey face in 'the team' (unless it is Wilko or B&Q) and there is no incentive to give '2nd chances' - this is why women in their 50s earn x8 less than men I think

Seeing all my friends parents scramble about in poverty now kids are in 20s and they no longer get maintenance heavily influenced me and my friends.

It a an enormous risk to be a SAHP as once your kids are16/18 you get no maintenance and poverty and low wages beckon, unless you can retrain over years and try and get into public sector jobs.

It is so depressing, I wish the workforce was different but it isn't so it meant SAHM was no option for me.

pag I think coming from a background with no money makes a huge difference to how you look after it when you finally get it. Do you worry that your DC won't have that motivation?

I agree totally Wordfactory.

It's a problem. But DS1 is fiercely independent at 20, in the last year at uni. We do pay for his accommodation but he works and has a loan for everything else. He's pretty contemptuous of the students with allowances from their parents.
He understands that he has an inheritance (for want of a less wanky word) but he has a strong work ethic and is very ambitious in his chosen field so he stands or falls by his own efforts.
Plus, assuming DS2 has an average life expectancy DS1 views the money we leave one day as the means to ensure DS2 has great care.

It's still weird for me. It was easy to parent good sense, to model a sensible, non flashy lifestyle years ago. Saying no because you chose not to indulge them is more complicated. Although obviously much nicer than when we said no because we simply couldn't afford stuff.
I need to work even harder with DD. I have bought her stuff I probably shouldn't so I check myself.
Her life is utterly bizarre to me to be honest. But she's a nice kind kid.

Was your experience similar ? Do you double take sometimes?

I am. I mean, if DH popped his clogs tomorrow I'd probably need to move as long term I couldn't pay the rent we do on my own, and have savings. But I'd more than survive.

We both contribute to a joint account, but have separate bank accounts which our pay goes into, and we have separate savings account (though we kind of think of the savings as "ours"). I have my own pensions (through work) and savings through work. We might need to re-assess to an extent soon, as for the first time since we've been a couple there's a significant disparity between our earnings (DH now out earns me.

I am freaking TERRIFIED of being stuck financially - my parents are thanks to years of redundancies, emigrating at a weird time, and (for my DM at least) financial illiteracy (she thought an ISA was a hedge fund basically). That fortunately gave me the push to make sure I'm sorted financially (or as far as I could be).

Also, I've had to be financially independent for years - I had to pay my way through university (supporting myself with various crapola jobs) so to be financially dependant on someone else would actually feel really odd to me.

pag I grew up in what would now be described as the underclass. My parents were georgous but dogged by problems ranging from SEN and MH issues.

By a mixture of fanatastic luck, talent and hard graft DH and I now find ourselves wealthy. TBH it's all my DC have ever known. We try not to be spendy with them, they certainly don't have wardrobes full of expensive clothes or top of the range phones etc but the fabric of our lifestyle is what it is IYSWIM.

Right now they're 14 and great kids. Both work extremely hard at school. But I worry that they'll become entitled horrors ...

It's interesting that your son took out a loan at univeristy and works too! DH would be very inclined to pay for university and ensure they leave debt free, which I kinda understand, I mean we left debt free, but OTH I can see how that won't help them learn the value of money and hard work.

It really depends what you mean by financially independent, doesn't it?

DP and I both work f/t and earn roughly the same amount. So in theory yes, I am completely financially independent from him. We 'share' our finances in a way that would frustrate other people, but which works for us, and despite our finances seeming separate compared to other couples it is all still money in one big pot at the end of the day.

However, judging by some of the comments on here, I'm not sure that that counts as 'financially independent' if people are qualifying that as being able to support yourself with your OH. I have a good job and a reasonable salary for our part of the country, but I don't think either of us would be able to continue to work, run our house and pay f/t childcare on one salary.

Surely almost everyone is financially dependent on their OH, as most couples pool their resources and have a house etc that they can afford either with the two incomes or with one parent staying at home with the children?

Yes. That's well expressed - the fabric of our lives is so different.

We talked to DS1 about uni and that is what he wanted.
I am pretty sure that at some stage we will contrive to pay off his debt or do something to help, like a house deposit. But for now I admire what he is trying to do and would worry about undermining it.
It's a balance isn't it.

God Absy - me too. My mum is clueless. Never had a job until she was in her 40s. When my dad died she didn't know how to write a cheque or pay a bill. It layered humiliation and helplessness on top of her grief.

totally. The woman is 69 and I was asking her what kind of pension she might have through work (she's still working as basically they have no other option) and she said "I don't know. They just said a lot of words at me and I got confused". I then asked her to give me the documents to look over, and she still hasn't. She's not dim - she's an incredibly intelligent woman she's always just assumed (hoped?) that would her life would actually be like is a 1950s stereotype - she could be an SAHM and DF woulld provide absolutely everything for her. But for more than 20 years that hasn't been the reality - DF was made redundant a number of times, they moved country (using up the proceeds from the sale of a house to live on). It's shocking how unaware she's been. But anyway. At least it's been an EXCELLENT lesson for me to never assume that someone else is going to look after me financially.

God yes, me too. Watching my mum trying to persuade my dad to buy something was grim.

I do think the dynamic is bedded in though. I think my mum (and my dad) would have felt that it was a criticism of my dad if she took steps towards financial independence. And yet my dad adored my mum. He saw taking care of that as a manifestation of love - his role.

It's questions like these that plague me now and make me warn other SAHP to think .
My husband earns just enough (most of the time)for us to live with me at home . We have 3 kids and }zero family help. It has meant we don't have a flash house or lifestyle ,but its our choice and we are happy.
Then 18 mths ago my fit healthy husband had a stroke at 43. He is ok and we are lucky.
I am now petrified of this happening again and what we would do without his income .
I have no qualifications and my cv is laughable !
What the hell would we do .
That's why I now say to other parents think long term .

I guess I am just about. I earn a lot more than DH but I am pregnant and would struggle to afford childcare if he wasn't going to be at home. I probably could do it if I moved to a smaller house or a cheaper area, or both.

I am.

I earn more than dh and could manage on my own.

Hope I never ever have to put it to the test, but I would be fine, financially anyway.

will come back and read all of this when I have enough time...

to answer the exam question: if you'd asked me when my kids were little it would have been a "no". I was a SAHM mother for 7 years, PT for 5 after that, and have now been FT for 11 years. To make things more complex, 2 of my 3 DC are disabled and so we have had to pay for childcare for easily ten years longer than is usual.

Now they are bigger, childcare is about to stop, I earn the same as DH, we will have roughly the same pensions in retirement, we have paid off the mortgage.

So one strategy that has worked for us is to share everything when younger, get back to work when they are a bit bigger, and ramp it up to FT once they are at secondary, and then go for an excellent pension scheme (you are in HE, so am I, we have a wonderful pension scheme) and a sensibly paid job. Then pay down your debt.

But I am lucky because I have had a long marriage. Marriage breakdown is always a risk.

wordfactory you say It's interesting that your son took out a loan at university and works too! DH would be very inclined to pay for university and ensure they leave debt free, which I kinda understand, I mean we left debt free, but OTH I can see how that won't help them learn the value of money and hard work.

Currently BIS estimates that 40% of student debt will never be repaid, because of people having maternity leave, doing further study, or just not earning enough before the date when it all gets written off. Assuming they still have the same system when your DS hits Uni, the savvy thing to do is take out student debt to the max, and use any cash you can afford instead to help them with a deposit for a house or flat in due course, helping them access a cheaper loan rate and reduce their borrowing term. Student debt is very cheap, the repayments are hardly noticeable if you do well; if you don't do well, it will be written off anyway. Mortgage debt, on the other hand, is a huge factor in their lives.

Lots of interesting responses. I think you have clarified to me that I was looking at it the wrong way. I might not be able to have the life and house I have now, but if dh turned out not to be the wonderful man I think he is, I would be ok. Paying for childcare would be difficult, but I have a job with a future so I could be financially independent and take care of my dd of I had to. Which is reassuring even in the safest of marriages, which I am fortunate enough to have. The main difficulty is during these years of paying for childcare. Once dd has free hours and then is at school, we'll be much better off.
However I don't think I would be feeling secure if I was now a sahm because we don't own a property or have anything I would be entitled too. It seems a bit backwards that the most important job anyone can choose is the one that leaves some women so vulnerable. For plenty of people, it's worth the risk but I think it shouldn't be a risk to make that choice.
Sorry- that's not much of a conclusion, is it? I'm not sure what the answer is to stop some women being financially trapped or left with nothing but women should be able to be sahm without that worry.

I'm financially independent of DH, yes, in that I could support our lifestyle quite comfortably if DH left or died, or whatever. I might have to move, or remortgage the house in order to give him his "share" in the event of a split, but we have plenty of equity in it, so we could afford to do that.

We have a bit of an odd arrangement anyway, in that all of our living costs, including mortgage, are paid for from my salary. He pays for his own stuff, sends money to his family overseas and saves the rest in both our names. It probably sounds strange to some, but it works for us! I earn a lot more than he does, but he is better at saving. I still have more disposable income than he does, even after paying for everything, but that's partly his choice - my salary goes into a joint account that he doesn't really use, but he could if he wanted to.we both save quite a lot anyway.

For me, though, real financial independence isn't about DH, it's about knowing that I could get by if I lost my job, lost DH and didn't have access to state support. I'm nowhere near that position yet, but I do have one friend who is - no silver spoon in her mouth, just very careful financial planning, wise investments and real frugality! It's a great situation to be in if you can do it!

I think it makes men vulnerable too and it is not something they have a choice over.

A man brings a child into the world knowing that 90% of the time if for some reason the relationship breaks down, that the mother will have the residential care of the children.

My husband commented on how strange it was that I was seen as dependent on him when our children were tiny, yet I was the one that could still their cries, feed them and that looked after them all day. If he had upped and left, my life would have continued basically as normal but without him in it. Had I left he would have had to quit his job and completely changed his life around to fulfil the job that I did.

Yet I was seen as the vulnerable and dependent one.

Its a funny world

Aye, it's ridiculous.
Of course if we abolish capitalism, have enormous taxes, a strong state and no privatisation, we might all be better off! But that's another thread...

I earn four times what DH does (long story) and solely supported the family for almost five years. I couldn't bear to be dependent on anyone for money but I totally get why many people end up so.

I'm financially independent in that if DH and I were to split, I could still support myself and my kids.
We have all monies in a joint account and I'm the one that handles the finances on a day to day basis, has full access to our savings and ensures that bills get paid and our savings grow.
We both work on the understanding that if we were to split, everything would be 50/50 including parental access to children etc.

If either one of us were to die, God forbid, we each have substantial life insurance to cover this eventuality and we each have decent pensions.

I am a teacher. I have one DS. If it was just me I would manage and would not be eligible for benefits. Manage means not have the holidays and lifestyle I have now, with two incomes, but I would not be destitute nor would I be dependent on the state.
I was brought up to believe that women should be capable of independence. Whether you choose this state or not is up to you but that it is shameful if you look ahead, as a teenager, and actively plan to be dependent on anyone else - be it the state or a man.
In reality any of our Dear Dear Husbands or Partners could drop dead or become ill - so you'd better have a back up plan. That back up plan should not include having other people pick up the pieces for you.
My DH was brought up by his father as a single parent, who in turn was raised by his own father again as a single parent. I will raise my son to be aware of the need for independence, self sufficiency and resilience.

Fudge I think youre overthinking itm basically the question is could you survive without your dhs wage

No, that is not the question if you read it....

Are you financially independent? i.e. without any one else's input.
Nothing to do with whether you're in a partnership or anything.

I'm a LP and financially independent.

And I thought Fudge's post was great! Cos at the end of the day we really are all dependent on each other, in whichever way.