To not understand some attitudes towards health visitors

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

I appreciate there are good ones and not so good ones - like in every profession.

What I find hard to fathom is the "getting one over on the HV" mentality. For example a conversation at a child's birthday party today:

"Oh yeh, the HV kept going on about putting her to sleep on her back so I used to just flip her over in her Moses basket whenever she was coming round"
"Ha ha yeah mine was really pro-breastfeeding so I didn't mention I'd given up after 2 days and used to hide the bottles"

I just don't get it. The HV are duty bound, by virtue of their profession to give the evidence-based advice. But if you're going to go against he advice then that's your choice isn't it - why does it have to be 'hidden' from them? Have I just never encountered a really judgemental one?! And they are only advising based on what they believe safest for the children - surely that's a good thing?

I'm not saying I did eveything mine advised but it just puzzles me why it's always the HV. You never really hear people talk about nurses or teachers like that.

Ready - medical advice is one thing though, parenting advice is something completely different. If I don't want to receive advice on getting my baby to sleep through the night it's easiest just to tell the HV/MIL/neighbour that the baby is a great sleeper, thanks.

The HVs I encountered either had outdated views ('oooh he's a big boy, he is ready for a bit of baby rice' at 14 weeks etc) OR were super pushy new fangled youngsters who really pushed breastfeeding on me and didnt listen to a word I said. In fact, thats the crux of it - none of them ever listened to me properly.

I'm open minded, of course. I wouldnt be as stupid and pathetic as to tar a whole profession with that brush based on my own handful of experiences, but nevertheless, I can see why some mothers find their hackles rising at HV advice.

I met HV's twice. Once in old flat where she came round and basically said 'You seem like a nice couple, just call me if you need me'.
( I was deep in the throes of PND but wasn't going to let on to anyone!)
The second was when we moved house and she was lovely, but similarly said 'I think you'll be absolutely fine, just call if you need me'.

I don't really know what a HV is meant to be for really?

I know in my mums day, she was so tired that the HV came over and sat with the baby for an hour so that she could catch 40 winks. I'm not sure if she just went above and beyond though...

Also the HVs are HCP, you wouldn't advocate lying to your child's pediatrician for the sake of an easier life as well?

If I knew the information I was being given was completely incorrect and the HCP failed to listen to my concerns about that - I wouldn't lie but I would seek another HCP for a second opinion.

That wasn't an option for the HV here apparently - or so I was told.

I had no health concerns about DC or myself - a lot of the stuff was about parenting choices and came with a huge dose of pressure backed up with vague threats if I didn't do what HV said. None of which was helping me or my DC - exact opposite in fact.

The only HVs I really came across were at a childrens centre, they were sympathetic and nice to me. They didn't tell me anything I hadn't read already on the internet but they listened to me moan and offered to hold my dd while I went to the loo.

Never had home visits apart from the first 5 minute form filling one.

But maybe I just didn't expect much from the NHS post-natally, I didn't get a midwife visit till 10 days after birth. She commented on how I was doing really well for a newbie and I told her it was all down to the lovely maternity nurse I'd hired who helped me with bfeeding, checked my c-section wound and dd's cord. Seeing as noone else had bothered to :)

HV here weren't attached to GP - had only little service they'd run clinics in GP and later children's centers but GP said they had no control over HV - different to previous area.

We didn't have GP when they turned up at our house - we had made contact with MW - our youngest was that young a baby and moved caused mastitis.

Finding out how to complain took ages - a few Internet searches and fruitless phone calls to their office and their manager. Plus there vague threats of I must be hiding something if didn't do what they said made me think twice about complaining.

That was part of the issue for me - having this HV service that was stressing me out and not being able to opt out despite there being no issues.

There's such a range of experiences from people, it really is a lottery.
My HVs knew all the latest info including weaning advice for prem baby which matched the neonatal specialists and were brilliant and still are. But my sis (different part of the country) had crap advice and hates them with a passion.

My HV sat with me and DH going through her tick form, and then said "Well I shouldn't actually ask this in front of your husband, but I can tell it isn't an issue here - so are you the victim of any violence by your husband?"

Because yes, clearly, you can tell who is the victim of domestic violence by talking to them in front of their husband.

So my HV was a fool. A dangerous fool.

HV are nurses or midwives. As a children's nurse myself I can't understand how so many of them appear to give such crap advice or no advice at all.

Whenever I took DS to be weighed I only ever saw a nursery nurse. DS has reflux, eczema and a cmpa and she was never able to give me any advice. When he screamed for three solid days the hv I did see just agreed I took him to the GP, no advice whatsoever.

The last hv I saw was lovely, she said some of the things she hears the older hv's come out with is shocking.

If I have to keep myself updated as part of my job then why don't they?

mine was rude, patronising and prejudiced. She gave crap advice, asked very rude questions that had nothing to do with her job

I tolerated a lot, but when she called in social services because she couldn't tell the difference between a bruise and a birth mark throwing me into a nightmare with a 3 week old baby and a 2 year old I was terrified would be taken away, turned up a few days later without invite, then hinted that we couldn't refuse to see her because "well if you WANT them to think you have something to hide" ... I requested a different one who we saw once while investigations into a birth mark were taking place (lots of doctors saying "there's nothing wrong with this baby, I'm sorry you are going through this.") then once it was all over I notified them (several times so far because they don't listen!) that I didn't want their health visitors anywhere near me or my children and that the first one was incompetent at best and ruining lives at worst.

so you still think I should be nice to her and let her visit???

The fact that they are midwife or a nurse in the first place doesn't make them a specialist of infants and children, nor a specialist in parenting.

As a midwife, I would expect them to know about babies, little ones, bit about the needs of a toddler, their development it of to make them sleep through the night.
As a nurse, well they might well have looked after elderly for most if their working life.
I found that the advice they were giving for 'common' problems just . To a second time mum wondering how to deal with her 6 months old baby, she was told to give him water and leave him cry. The mum pointed out that in the same room there was his older sibling and that would wake her up. HV answer 'ah well what do you want me to say?'
I have say in front of 3 of them at the end of a clinic with a screaming child trying to take his bottle, a child covered in gives and clearly in pain. Their advice: 'oh he doesn't sound happy does he? Do you think he needs a nap?' That child has an allergy to cows milk and any milk was giving him very bad tummy pain. Ah but according to them, milk allergy wasn't a possibility... well not until I decided to switch to soya and problems resolved on their own. Not that I told them

If a midwife or nurse isn't able to recognize pain cries from a 4mobyhs old baby, what on earth are they doing?

This has made me sad,my health visitor is lovely. DD couldn't latch when I tried breastfeeding so I expressed and exclusively fed her this way for 3 weeks,one day HV arrived and saw I was struggling (chronically dehydrated,exhausted and as a type 1 diabetic my blood sugars were all over the place) and gently suggested that I consider switching to formula. I was thinking the same thing but her mentioning it made me feel a lot better about making that decision.

My mums friend,who is like a second mother to me,is also a health visitor and when she heard I was expressing told me I was nuts! She,by her own admission,is very anti co-sleeping but that is because a baby she was visiting died as after its father smothered it in his sleep. They had lied about the baby sleeping in its crib but she still feels guilty about it year later.

Amadine, I would genuinely like to ask about why you think your profession is perceived the way it is? Is it perhaps that older HVs assumed they knew best and pre internet days this may have been taken as fact (which I'm sure it often was but not always)?

I think sometimes HVs and new mums don't always get off to the best start and that clouds the rest of the time. My first meeting was when ds1 was 10days old. She said what a shame it was not to have either my mother or mil nearby. I said yes but I had my DH at weekends anyway. She looked at me puzzled and then said to me as if I was stupid, 'yes but not through the week!' I was confused for a minute until I realised she meant in the daytime. Well, both mother and mil worked f/t in high powered professional jobs so even if they had been local, I wouldn't gave seen them on a weekday. So she made an assumption then acted as though I was stupid for not realising what she meant. Not a good start.
Then when I was worried about ds3 and autism, my most recent HV quite literally knew less than half of what I did. She had never heard of the MChat test or ESDM or floortime. Nor did she seem to understand the significance if him not using the imperative point.
This seriously made me question whether there was a lack of CPD. Do you feel this to be the case or do you think more recently qualified HVs are likely to be more on the ball?

I had a nice DC1 - then totally absconded form DC2 & 3 because they were so ... it's a long story!

Anyway - DC4 I needed help with something. New area, new start, phone up. They say...?

'We can see you for your 1 year check and the 2 year check; your child is 18 months old and not currently scheduled for a check - sorry I can't help"

Wtf?

She then tried to placate me with some internet questionnaire to try to dismiss my concerns.

If they are not available as a general source of support for mothers and young children - I don't see the point of the service.

I won't speak to them again.

Mine is all right, but I needed help with breastfeeding and she kept insisting my DS didn't have a tongue-tie (he did) and kept encouraging me to move to formula.

She just felt a bit pushy and I was knackered so it was easier to just nod and agree then do what I wanted when she left.

I don't know the answers. I can only speak from my own experiences. The HVs where I'm based are regularly updated and are regularly given one to one supervision with a manager. I will say though that the course is very, very intense and there is no way on earth that anyone doing it would continue to put themselves under that amount of pressure if it wasn't what they really, really wanted. And certainly not if they were 'not good enough for their current profession' - I find that extremely offensive. I was good at my previous job but after 10 years of looking after extremely sick babies I just couldn't do it anymore.

I've seen some amazing work done by HVs. I've seen developmental issues get picked up and children get the support they need. I've seen mothers supported to breastfeed, to formula feed, and wean their babies. I've seen mums be supported through dv.

I don't think I can come back to this thread, it's just too demoralising. Continue to bash a whole profession based on a few if it makes you feel good about it.

Amandine you sound like you will be a wonderful HV.

Don't leave the thread! My post wasn't an attack at all. I was asking genuinely whether you felt that CPD or lack of it was an issue for older HVs.
I only stated my own experiences. It's good to know that you believe that HVs are picking up developmental problems but maybe less so in toddlers than in babies. I have seen a HV pick up suspected autism in a 2yr old but tbh I'd thought it was fairly obviously for at least 6mths before so not difficult to spot. What i'd hope to see is HVs picking up the very subtle signs of high functioning developmental delay. Those often missed by first time mums. I'd also like to see more support for mums 'outside the remit'. So last time I asked about classes they were running only to be told I couldn't come as I wasn't in receipt of benefits. Likewise I asked how to avoid pnd as I'd had it after first baby and was told to eat healthily and get lots of fresh air.

OP, are you trying to be deliberately offensive?
You had good hv experiences? Great good for you.
Mine were not just rubbish, but unprofessional and negligent.
So now you know!

It's not the OP being offensive on this thread

In my area all 1, 2 and 3 year olds get a full developmental assessment so developmental delays are spotted. Unfortunately though most areas don't have the resources to offer that. And it seems as if most of you wouldn't want it anyway

Well my oldest two had a developmental check at 8mths then nothing more. I got a questionnaire which asked if I was happy with my child's development. I thought that was quite ridiculous because if I wasn't, I'd have made an appointment to see someone and also, if I was a first time mum with no experience of other children I may not have a clue that there was an issue with my 2yr old not pointing/showing/sharing or answering to his name.

I just got the impression that HVs could be great if you needed info which seemed fairly obvious such as advice on weaning of potty training but ask for help with something else and it was like a brick wall.
Neither DH nor I are medical professionals. I'm a teacher and he's a lawyer but it seemed that unless we wanted common sense 'obvious' advice, no help was available.

I remember moving house as well, turned up with DS at clinic, they weighed him with clothes on, as he was over 1 and they said it was policy. I asked about registering as I'd moved, they wrote something down and then that was it for about 4 or 5 months. During which time I had several questions, but every time I phoned up I was told quite rudely "Well you're not on the list so you'll have to wait until someone contacts you." I wasn't allowed apparently to access the clinic at these times so I had to guess-weigh DS on random other scales to see if he was too big for his 0-13kg car seat or not!

And then when I did finally get a HV she insisted that DS had jumped down several centile lines even though I explained that the previous weighing was with clothes and the current one was naked. DS was quite upset at being made to undress and she kept forcing him on the scales to the point that he became totally terrified of them and wouldn't even stand on someone's bathroom scales for me