To not understand some attitudes towards health visitors

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

I appreciate there are good ones and not so good ones - like in every profession.

What I find hard to fathom is the "getting one over on the HV" mentality. For example a conversation at a child's birthday party today:

"Oh yeh, the HV kept going on about putting her to sleep on her back so I used to just flip her over in her Moses basket whenever she was coming round"
"Ha ha yeah mine was really pro-breastfeeding so I didn't mention I'd given up after 2 days and used to hide the bottles"

I just don't get it. The HV are duty bound, by virtue of their profession to give the evidence-based advice. But if you're going to go against he advice then that's your choice isn't it - why does it have to be 'hidden' from them? Have I just never encountered a really judgemental one?! And they are only advising based on what they believe safest for the children - surely that's a good thing?

I'm not saying I did eveything mine advised but it just puzzles me why it's always the HV. You never really hear people talk about nurses or teachers like that.

My first one was useless, she had never had children and sometimes her advice sounded straight out of a textbook, fine in text but often not practical. Probably nothing wrong with that but I just couldn't relate to her as she didn't really have the answers. I just felt really frustrated after any dealings with her as with DD1 being my first I felt did need some advice and direction at times!

She left when DD1 was 18 months old. Our second one who we had until we DD2 went to school was brilliant. A mother of 5 herself, there wasn't much she hadn't seen and could give sound common sense advice. She was a strong advocate of breastfeeding and a fully trained bf counsellor, really useful when I had the odd problem.

Its because they are generally out of date, badly trained and opinionated. To be fair it would be hard to be an expert in all aspects of childcare, but they do tend to hold themselves out as specialists which simply isnt the case.

A HV at my baby clinic told me I had 'damaged the intestines' of my babies by weaning them early (which I did on the advice of a neonatal paediatrician following their arrival 12 weeks early). She had no idea what the weaning guidelines were for v premature babies but instead of saying that, she criticised to the point I immediately went to the neonatal unit and decamped there in an absolute state until a peadiatrician had chance to see me and reassure me that she was wrong.

People feel obliged to have a HV there but once you've been exposed to their useless advice, perhaps when you have a 2nd or 3rd child, you know its just a question of going through the motions, hence ignoring advice / telling them you think they want to hear.

What is co sleeping?

Hmmm. I don't have any interest in arguing with anyone about parenting styles. Everyone's is different. I don't really care what they say, just sort of washes over me and I get on with it the way I want to, possibly taking on board some useful bits. But maybe that's the post section drugs.

I don't think I saw a hv more than three times with two children.

Sharing a bed with a baby

Its because they are generally out of date, badly trained and opinionated. To be fair it would be hard to be an expert in all aspects of childcare, but they do tend to hold themselves out as specialists which simply isnt the case.

A HV at my baby clinic told me I had 'damaged the intestines' of my babies by weaning them early (which I did on the advice of a neonatal paediatrician following their arrival 12 weeks early). She had no idea what the weaning guidelines were for v premature babies but instead of saying that, she criticised to the point I immediately went to the neonatal unit and decamped there in an absolute state until a peadiatrician had chance to see me and reassure me that she was wrong.

People feel obliged to have a HV there but once you've been exposed to their useless advice, perhaps when you have a 2nd or 3rd child, you know its just a question of going through the motions, hence ignoring advice / telling them you think they want to hear.

what is co sleeping

Sharing your bed with your baby instead of having them in a cot.

It's sad, but its the awful HVs and their rubbish advice that you remember. I know that there are probably brilliant ones somewhere. but I didn't have the good fortune to meet one.

AFAIA, to train to be a HV you need to have a medical background - nurse or midwife - and I also understand that it can be a challenging and demanding course. So how does all that expertise and training end up with HVs that are at best incompetent or at their worse dangerous?

I've never had a bad experience. But then, I was quick to explain why I was doing something if it was different from current recommendations and/or frowned upon.

Like any profession you have those that are just not that interested, those that parrot guidelines even when nonsensical, those that believe their way is the ONLY way and then of course the great ones who are confident enough in both themselves and you as a parent and will say "current guidelines are xyz but if it's working for you just keep doing it..."

related to an awesome hv so possibly biased

ok thanks!

Re milk its full fat milk from age 1-2 then from 2-5 semi skimmed then after 5 skimmed. The calcium is the same but its the fat content that differs so as the child gets older they need less fat.

I am yet to encounter a HV who is helpful.

• When DS was 10 weeks old and had just come out of hospital after having severe Broncholitis I was lectured on the importance of wrapping him up warm - fair enough it was a very snowy january but she had just watched me take him out of his snowsuit and various layers of clothes to be weighed. The same HV also couldn't understand why he had lost weight even after me pointing out he had been nil by mouth for 5 days.

• Every time DS has been in hospital/to A and E (we are talking over 30 times) we have been told the HV will be informed and will contact us. Only once has this ever happened, even after he was in HDU no support was offered at all. Thankfully I had a very supportive family.

• The few times I have tried to actually contact a HV its rediculously difficult and the advice given was useless.

I KNOW they are over stretched, but it seems to me that they are still failing to provide the basic support a lot of families need.

My hv gave us some good advice in regards to weaning.
I do think it depends who you get though , same as MW. My fave 2 mw's were really honest i.e the guidelined advice and then what they did with their children

Mine were lovely.
I knew them through my job, so it was a bit strange at first.
I told them most things, co sleeping etc. They gave advice but were never pushy.

Mine were lovely.
I knew them through my job, so it was a bit strange at first.
I told them most things, co sleeping etc. They gave advice but were never pushy.

My first HV was amazing. She was supportive, and gave good practical advice. I told her I had ended up co-sleeping, and rather than tell me off she said there were things I could try to get her in her own bed, but that ultimately we needed to get sleep any way we could. She gave good ideas, but they didn't work for us. She said not to get overly stressed when it didn't work, and we went back to co-sleeping, she said we needed to do what worked for us. Happy mum = happy baby was her favourite saying.
She was fantastic and helped me through breastfeeding issues.
she was promoted, and I never saw her replacement.

My second HV was crap. She was not supportive of me breast feeding at all, just said there was no need to go as extreme as I had with DD (fed till she was 2).
She was rude and judgemental.
I told her I was co-sleeping (through choice - and I had a pack from the hospital about co-sleeping that my midwife gave me) and she proceeded to try and scare the life out of me by citing cot death rates and horror stories. She told me to persevere and get him back in his cot. She made me feel like a bad mother. So in my fragile state I forced my son in to his moses basket that night.
My son went from sleeping for 6 hours straight then feeding then down for another 4, to waking every half hour and taking ages to settle.
After a week of crap sleep I went back to co-sleeping, and he slept beautifully, as did I!
When I next saw her in clinic - I lied. Said he was in his own bed. It was far easier for me to lie than to sit through her nastiness again.

After that I refused to see her again. Had DS weighed then left clinic without talking to her.

Because they are hugely patronising, ask overly personal questions (my HV was asking about mine and my partners financial situation and job security when she visited me at home) and give shitty advice (mine was anti feeding on demand. Very keen to get me onto a three hour feeding schedule just because my baby was an ounce away from her birth weight at 10 days. I ignored her advice but as a first timer this shook my confidence. Fwiw, Baby has hit above target weight-wise ever since).

I guess some people also feel like they are under surveillance by the state? I know it's not mandatory to see a hv but you hear of people being treated with suspicion by the authorities if they decline a visit.

Yes, I never knew health visitors and mothers-in-law were so widely hated until I started looking at Mumsnet. Was quite shocked.

Dylsmimi I am interested in where that advice is from, as I've not heard it before. Can you point me in the right direction please? Apologies OP for hijacking thread.

And it also makes a difference the type of person you are, like your confidence. With dd1 we were very young and not confident at all, because of dd1's difficulties we have had to become more confident to get heard, so with hv and mw etc for dd2 i am happy to voice my opinion/concerns etc

I don't have DC yet so do shoot me down in flames but.......

It seems to me HV are a potentially great idea but ill delivered.

I get the child protection remit but coming into people's homes as a default is always going to piss them off and get their backs up. Why not have clinic appts as standard and home visits for those who want?

There seems a lot of teeth sucking and Dark Hinting if you don't take up the optional service. Why not either say, at least one visit is compulsory or make it absolutely clear it 's optional and not red flat people who don't attend?

Finally my close friend who had a baby recently got asked all sorts about her relationship with her partner, their sex life, contraception etc. I'd refuse to answer those questions because I don't normally discuss those things IRL except when necessary - basic part of respect for DH, IMO.

I know some on MN say HV always get bashed. True. But why not really think about why that is? Surely not all these women complaining are hysterical entitled cows???

I have 2 other experiences of the 'professionalism' of a HV.
1 the lady who came to visit me at home when I was a new mum to my premature twins, was drowning under the pressure of breastfeeding them both, rocked by 2 months whilst they were on the Special Care baby and she came in the house, didnt look at the babies and asked me to turn the TV on as they were about to announce whether London had got the Olympics.

2 the HV who phoned me to ask me if my daughter was ready for heart surgery the next day. I was gobsmacked, she had had a heart condition when she was born (as a result of being premature) but she'd been checked before we were discharged and told surgery wasn't necessary. Relayed all this to her, but she said appointment had been made. Long story short, she'd mixed my daughter up with another child of the same name. Apparently she didnt have her file, when I asked her whether she'd checked before she phoned to discuss something as serious as heart surgery she said she 'just made the phonecalls' she didn't have time to check all the paper work!!

Because some people obviously haven't been as lucky with theirs as you have been. Never seen the same one myself and totally dismissed when shared my worries with them. lectured when I chose to stop breast feeding. I haven't tried to get one over on them like you put it but have kept the truth from them to avoid lectures. Personally have no time for them after my experiences.

These personal questions are there as a purpose.... financial etc i think is because they have a lot of info about claiming and can help with housing etc. And contraception i suppose is to help you.

revoltingpeasant there are opportunities to go to clinics too mostly for weigh ins though. I voluntarily went and had concerns so raised then I got made to feel like an over protective first time mum! God forbid I asked a question while they just wanted to get through the weigh ins quickly!