To not understand some attitudes towards health visitors

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

I appreciate there are good ones and not so good ones - like in every profession.

What I find hard to fathom is the "getting one over on the HV" mentality. For example a conversation at a child's birthday party today:

"Oh yeh, the HV kept going on about putting her to sleep on her back so I used to just flip her over in her Moses basket whenever she was coming round"
"Ha ha yeah mine was really pro-breastfeeding so I didn't mention I'd given up after 2 days and used to hide the bottles"

I just don't get it. The HV are duty bound, by virtue of their profession to give the evidence-based advice. But if you're going to go against he advice then that's your choice isn't it - why does it have to be 'hidden' from them? Have I just never encountered a really judgemental one?! And they are only advising based on what they believe safest for the children - surely that's a good thing?

I'm not saying I did eveything mine advised but it just puzzles me why it's always the HV. You never really hear people talk about nurses or teachers like that.

No I never felt judged either, and nor did I mind answering intrusive questions. It's being given poor advice that I object to, especially when it is unsolicited and unnecessary.

e.g. we have never had any problems with feeding or weight gain, so why am I always told I should feed her on a routine (which of course is not evidence based advice anyway).

It's all very well for confident people who are able to research the evidence but it fails many others.

However I do accept that the HVs round here are not representative of all HVs and are possibly good at the child protection aspect of their role.

I have a brilliant HV. I also know of some terrible ones.

When you see the GP when you are pregnant you are asked to tick a box that says 'I accept health surveillance' - so you do opt in to the HV system, although my GP only explained because I asked.

I think it must be a difficult job Amadine because you are employed by the state, not the mother/parents, and the state/NHS obviously have their own goals. The tick box culture means it must be hard to give individual advice and if you do, it would be easy for your own prejudices to slip in. I had one visit from a HV, during which she insisted on giving me lots of leaflets I didn't want and tried to get me to say I'd go to the local children's centre. I rarely go to that part of town - there are much more convenient services available in places I do go regularly, but her advice was all based on her targets and my postcode, not what I wanted/needed. I don't think she heard a word I said. Fortunately I didn't need her help!

I think HomeStart are probably better if you need support-type help. I have also found GPs very helpful and of course they can directly refer you or give you a prescription or advice.

I didn't see my GP when pregnant and didn't tick anything.

One of mine told me to wean onto baby rice at 5 months if DS hadn't gained weight quickly enough. This was before the charts based on BF babies and he was literally slightly below the line, perfectly healthy and alert and normal.

When I said "But doesn't milk have more calories than baby rice?" she stuttered and looked confused and said "You'd be surprised, it makes a difference" She also told me there was no point waiting until 6 months because I'd already given him formula anyway and there was no extra risk since I'd already introduced an allergen. I said "But I haven't given formula" and she did an actual face and then said "Nevertheless the allergy information isn't very clear." Well, is it or isn't it?!

I did hide the fact that I co slept because all of the evidence and guidelines I had received from the NHS told me not to co sleep so I didn't want them to think I was being a bad mother, even though it had been my own, researched and evidence based decision to do so

I don't think it is older HV who are the issue.

First HV - was near retirement gave the current advice explained why then talk about people's actual situations. She didn't judge and pointed out how often she'd seen the guidelines changed. The other HV on that team weren't as good but were o.k.

Area we moved HV seemed to have an attitude - paternalistic and patronizing but were late 30/40.

Incorrect information was annoying vague threats of child protection were annoying. Fact when I did ask for local information - like GP that would take us on - they couldn't tell me anything - they hadn't hear of the local children centers or play groups.

I was an well educated profession woman with her second baby but HV thought it was appropriate to tell me off in my house cause she phoned and then call round with no prior agreement or indication and I was out at toddler groups finding local stuff out.

She didn't believe me when I explained I had been in touch with bf support people, HV were bitching about lack of weight gain and I did have sore boobs so thought latch might need adjusting, but couldn't attend as I couldn't take my toddler. She called me a liar picked my house phone up rang them and was told the same. Then she truned round and had a go as I had no childcare for toddler.

I made it very clear I didn't want HV input - team of two and both equally as bad- they didn't listen.

I wanted them gone as I had enough on my plate- and nodding and smiling - getting my mother over when she was busy with other family illness to show I had support - and lying about sleeping arrangements seemed only way to go.

Incidentally I didn't mind being asked about contraception with first lot of HV in my house in private. Second lot chose a busy room waiting room full of strangers, my toddler and my mother and got pushy about info - I was not O.k with that.

We did complain about some of their behavior in the end but nothing happened and I'm biter as I had enough on without the HV adding to it plus I wasn't a vulnerable person - I hate to think about mothers who were dealing with that.

I was only 20 when I had DS. I did challenge some bits of their information but I would not have felt up to outright defying them in front of them on my own.

Now I'm older I'd be more confident and not as afraid but I suppose at the back of my mind was the fear that they could take DS away if they didn't think I was doing it right.

My experience with HV is that I had one that was awful and one that was good. However the comments I heard at baby clinic were completely crazy so I have to say I have avoided them quite a lot.

Thinking about it I am still about the reaction of the HV when I said I thought I had PND. The first one was 'oh not now. I don't have time for you.' Which was then followed by 'let's organize a home visit' that she cancelled half an hour before. And she never rang back to check how I was it to reschedule the appointment. Talk about supporting women with PND....

Marylou I agree that there must be some good HVs (even if I haven't come across one myself despite having had 3 children and living in 2 different areas in their early years) but I don't agree that poor HVs are only an issue for "insecure people" who might feel they're being judged.

I wasn't insecure, and couldn't have cared less whether I was judged as an individual - what I was at the time was a new parent, with premature twins who had been in hospital for 2 months without much of a support network locally, doing everything I could to do the "right" thing for my babies.

So in my dealings with a HV which was in effect my regular contact with "medical professionals" - I use the term loosely - I expected to be given the correct advice. It wasn't down to me, my insecurities as a parent or anything else, it was down to the fundamental issue that she did not know anything about how prematurity affected weaning.

My hv is unbearable, patronising and damn right wrong.

As a health prof Id never throw stuff down peoples throat if they never wanted.

Evidence- based advice!!! NOT lecturing and forcing their views on you

Ive had many a run in woth mine

I also know someone who is a HV but working in a deprived area and dealing with sensitive cases, incl ones where SS are involved and/or children are taken into care.
I think this is a whole other ball game and I can see how when coming out of a house with possible abuse or being worried about being attacked herself ( which has happened) some of the problems/issues they see at the health clinic look unimportant in comparison. And also why some of them are into that bossy stance.
But it doesn't make it right or nice for said new mums...,

YANNBU, I was fully prepared to feel like an HV was a total invasion of my privacy but actually they're just helpful knowledgeable HCP. And if you aren't confident enough in your decisions a a parent that you hide them from the HV maybe you need to eb rethinking them

It's not an issue of "not being confident in your parenting decisions" though, is it? The example in the OP of the mum who had decided to formula feed - what good would it have done her to have the HV tell her breast is best? Surely it's quite sensible to avoid unnecessary conflict.

Health Visitors use to drive me mad when I had a baby, turning up with no notice etc!

She never gave the HV a chance, she lied to her because she was proBF. Of course she's pro bf she's started out as a nurse or as a MW. She's going to encourage B,F but if she had been told that OP's friend was now FF nothing was going to change that (when BM is gone bm is gone IME). But she may have been able to help her with ff guidelines and making up bottles etc.

My HV, when I told her what my gp had told me, which is that Bf wasn't that important after first couple weeks and doesn't pass on any immunity etc.

She said she would be on the phone with practice manager that afternoon getting him "retrained"

Give them a chance if the woman had been rude about FF then complain. Refuse to have her in her house, but just lying? That wastes everyone's time.

Also the HVs are HCP, you wouldn't advocate lying to your child's pediatrician for the sake of an easier life as well?

My HV informed me with horror that I should not use an electric breast pump. I should express by hand if it was necessary to express at all - and I should just breastfeed.

Terribly helpful advice when DS1 was 6 days old and I was in extreme pain from breastfeeding and a dislocated coccyx from the birth and ready to give up if I had to latch DS on any more than necessary. I smiled and nodded because I am a non-confrontational wimp and ignored her advice.

I'd take my child to a paediatrician if there was something wrong with them. The relationship with an HV is totally different. I didn't need/want advice on my parenting choices.

Paediatricians in the whole know what they are doing. They will almost always give you the correct advice and treatment. They are professional. As for HV's..........

I reckon HVs don't actually have any opinions, they just make it their business to disagree with whatever you're doing just so they can justify their existence by giving 'advice'.

I know absolutely no-one with a good experience of HVs.

Paediatricians in the whole know what they are doing. They will almost always give you the correct advice and treatment. They are professional. As for HV's..........

See this is my point. Someone is a nurse or a midwife then goes on to do further training, but they are somehow less than other HCP

I've had bad advice from nurses/doctors/surgeons.. but I still assume in general that they did do a degree and have some clue about their job.

Yes, pop, isn't it odd that any professionalism, knowledge and common sense seems to go out of the window. It still amazes me. Maybe a lot of the people that did it just couldn't cut it in their previous positions.

I will admit to taking a dislike to my HV at her first visit - more a personality clash than anything else - but I can't help being glad that she's moved jobs and I should have a different one this time.

She was consistantly 1 hour + late for appointments. I accept that HVs are very busy, but would a brief phonecall have hurt if she was going to be more than 20 minutes or so late? As it was, I regularly had DS ready for the 'visit time' only to have either a tired, grumpy, or sleepy baby an hour later when she turned up and wanted me to strip him for weighing.

She gave me questionnaires for PND, and I lied on them because I didn't want any more to do with her than the bare minimum.

I felt she was constantly judging my house, how clean it was, my cat... nothing concrete for that, but looks and sniffs were fairly common.

And like others have said, I am not comfortable discussing my sex life with strangers. I will (and did) speak to my GP about it when required, but not to some random busybody who thinks they can come in and say 'Hi, I'm X, tell me about your contraception'.