To not understand some attitudes towards health visitors

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

I appreciate there are good ones and not so good ones - like in every profession.

What I find hard to fathom is the "getting one over on the HV" mentality. For example a conversation at a child's birthday party today:

"Oh yeh, the HV kept going on about putting her to sleep on her back so I used to just flip her over in her Moses basket whenever she was coming round"
"Ha ha yeah mine was really pro-breastfeeding so I didn't mention I'd given up after 2 days and used to hide the bottles"

I just don't get it. The HV are duty bound, by virtue of their profession to give the evidence-based advice. But if you're going to go against he advice then that's your choice isn't it - why does it have to be 'hidden' from them? Have I just never encountered a really judgemental one?! And they are only advising based on what they believe safest for the children - surely that's a good thing?

I'm not saying I did eveything mine advised but it just puzzles me why it's always the HV. You never really hear people talk about nurses or teachers like that.

Thanks for the link dylsmimi. Will have a read later when I'm not in the haze of night feeds!

I think it is just the judgemental part. Dd1had a serious accident at five months and fractured her skull. All the doctors in the hospital made me feel like they thought it was abuse, but soon realised it wasn't. After we were discharged from hospital, we had to see the hv to have her head measured, and the neurosurgeon sent a letter to the hv regarding this. Even so, every time i got shocked looks when i explained why we were there, and again made to feel like i must have beaten her over the head with a hammer. Obviously with stuff like baby p coming out it is probably good to check, but being treated like a criminal weeks later after all the doctors were satisfied was really horrible.

i haven't read whole thread, but agree op, there are so many people being negative about a profession where people are trained nurses then further trained in the role.
my own experience has been ok, only criticism is not enough time and in particular using a nursery nurse to do much of clinic, i only have an issue with nursery nurse as she gives out incorrect advice re breastfeeding and weaning and isn't a health professional.
if i understand correctly hv should be available for checking progress answering concerns and offering safety advice, i don't feel i have ever been lectured, i would far rather someone explain safe sleeping and me make an informed choice, i also think this one to one advice can be invaluable when you are sleep deprived mum with a tiny baby!

Not read the thread but

The HV are duty bound, by virtue of their profession to give the evidence-based advice.

Yet they consistently don't do that. "oh you have a big baby better wean him early. Better give baby a bottle if you are having trouble with weight gain. Oh reflux use infacol. bed sharing is dangerous

As a student health visitor this thread makes for depressing reading. I wasn't sure whether or not to comment but I wanted to add my experience to the mix!

I was a nurse for 10 years before I started the course (which is a masters by the way), working in a nicu. I have 2 children, and breastfed both, if that's relevant. The course was very hard to get onto - 60 applicants for 10 places so yes, the selection process is rigorous. It's a year long course, or 2 part time, and like the nursing degree is very intense. By the end I will have spent 113 days studying and 113 days in practice. We have to do several assignments and 2 exams. Everyone I'm studying with is an experienced nurse or midwife. Everything we do is evidence based. I'm not saying that all health visitors are amazing, or never get it wrong but the hatred towards them on Mumsnet is so demoralising.

Yes we ask about contraception. Yes we ask about your relationship. Not because we're nosy busybodies, but to ascertain if there's anything you need help with.

When serious case reviews are being conducted everyone asks where the HV was - yet at the same time people on here moan about HVs intruding into their homes. The phrase 'can't do right for doing wrong' comes to mind .

When I qualify I intend to be non judgemental, as I hope I am now, and I have seen health visitors really make a difference.

I hope that it was interesting for some of you to see things from the other side.

amandine thanks for your perspective (brave!). Why do you think that despite all this training many HVs give inaccurate advice? I have never met one who didn't recommend scheduled feeds for example, and the response to my DD's serious food allergy was laughable ('give her some more and see what happens' - now being looked after by the hospital allergy clinic).

I've no problem with evidence based HV. Sadly ive only meant one of them!

And this week I accompanied an expectant mother in a professional capacity to see the HV. She was so patronising it was embarrassing.

Roll on a new generation on HV.

Well I've never heard a HV I work with, or indeed any of the ones I've seen myself, say either of those things so I really don't know sorry! My mentor is really 'hot' on allergies and eczema and she gives out really good advice, and NHS guidelines are to feed on demand unless there's a good reason not to (bf baby needing waking to feed for example).

I have had 3 hvs and they have all been really nice.

I think the issue is many people feel intimidated by them. You have to keep control. State things as fact when you don't want advice.

'My baby is now on formula' no chance to lecture on bfing. Don't give them info they don't need. Ask for advice when you want it. Just because it's not in line with what you think it's not wrong. As my current says 'you know what you're doing' if I and 'as you are 34 with only 2 kids I imagine you know about contraception'

Fair enough amandine ! I wondered what the cpd is like? I.e. whether it's a case of just not being up to date?

Actually, one of the better ones I met was one of the youngest. When we were going through the list for the umpteenth time (they all seem to repeat questions) she actually said "I've read your notes, so I know this may seem a silly question, but I have to tick the box to say I've discussed contraception with you." DD was born after battling infertility and 3 lots of IVF, so it was fairly obvious that I didn't need contraception and that maybe another baby would be welcome anyway. She approached the matter sensitively. The others just said "Have you thought about what contraception you should be using?" which I found rather insensitive. It's also the same HV who told me about the brilliant breastfeeding support group.

Maybe the younger generation of HVs will be better.

I think a lot of people feel they are spying on behalf of social services. That the home visits and questions about your relationship, your support network and PND are to assess potential risk to your children. To be honest, it makes me nervous myself and I work with children and am well aware of child protection procedures.

I can also say that the service is crap. After a difficult pregnancy, birth and post natal period, including pre term baby, a stay in NICU, a PPH, readmission to hospital and various infections for both baby and me, which every midwife and HV reacted in complete horror to and insisted I told the whole story again despite the fact they could have just read my notes and told me they would be keeping an eye in us - I then didn't see or hear a HV from three weeks post natal at all.

I only ever saw the hv with DS2 once.

She was very nice, had a cup of tea and I commented on the huge size of him.

I didn't need support so never contacted them again.

No health visitors when I had DS1 so it never came up.

IMHO (I work in community child health) health visiting as a profession is doomed to fail despite all the talk of it being revitalised.
The basic problem is that HVs cant possibly be experts in all the stuff they are supposed to deal with. Training lacks depth and specificity and there's very little ongoing professional development.
Its very easy to tell when someone doesn't know something and is just waffling. People feel let down. Health visitors are being let down as well, by management and a health service that uses them to collect data about families and give the impression that things are being done when they're not.

"Everything we do is evidence based."

Really? So when my (otherwise excellent) HV went out of her way to tell me I mustn't let my 3yo come into my bed if she woke up in the night (which I happened to mention in passing, whilst talking about something else), that was evidence based? Based on what evidence exactly?

This is normal behaviour in my culture, there are no studies that show that it is bad for anything at all, I hadn't suggested it was causing any problems, I don't see why she should feel called upon to tell me that. To me, that is as gratuitous as telling me I must dress her in green and not in yellow.

Part of people's dissatisfaction with their individual HV's is this gratuitous advice on things they have no business to be commenting on and which has no relevance to evidence-based research.

The bigger and more important fact is that many older HV's do carry on dishing out advice that is outdated. That is going to be a serious problem, however rigorous the initial training of student HV's . If new research shows that something you are now trained to do is not the safest option after all (as happened with the sleeping on tummy advice), then in 20 years time we won't want you to still be repeating this to our grandchildren, however sensible it may have seemed at the time.

Couldn't agree more ender

It would never have occurred to me to lie to or 'get one over' the HV. I personally have no respect for their job, and certainly wouldn't feel the need to make them feel in the right if I thought they were wrong.

Definitely seems to be an issue between what HVs should be doing - giving evidence based advice - and what some are doing - giving advice based on their own personal opinions or outdated fashions.

Added to that, HVs seem to have little or no breastfeeding knowledge/training, and most come into contact with mothers when they are struggling to breastfeed a newborn for the first time and desperately need knowledgable support.

Intrusive questions - I wonder if many HVs forget just how intrusive questions about your relationship, financial status, mental state, whether you own your home or are on benefits actually are coming from a complete stranger who is now sitting in your front room? For an HV who does a 1000 similar conversations it is just routine, box ticking. For the person confronted with a barrage of questions, when the importance of them or what the answers are used for isn't explained, it's not a pleasant experience.

It might be just my circle of friends but I've never heard of this.I only had a couple of visits, nice chat and that was it.Very professional. I imagine that more insecure people might feel they are being judged perhaps? Health visitors do a marvelous job in difficult circumstances.

Having grown up abroad, I find the whole concept of a representative of the government coming to your house to tell you how to care for your child quite sinister, and when that feeling wears off, patronising. Make me feel like I'm a member some drooling underclass that can't be trusted to run my own life.

I'd a terrible HV with dd1 who instructed me in strict routines and her first words to me were "better get her on a bottle, you'll never manage to feed a 10lb baby yourself", and she advised me (in 2000) to wean her onto porridge at 10 weeks old.

I complained - loud and often. She eventually resigned.

I never felt judged, marylou. Just didn't appreciate being told incorrect information, my friend (young mother, away from family, husband away, having a massive baby trying to feed almost 24 hours a day on her worse that raw nipples being bullied (unbelievably considering the person concerned, but she was tired, ill and emotional) by a HV to keep on bfing or she was a the parent. I also didn't appreciate the comment that it was ok to be disappointed with a third boy (I wasn't and hadn't mentioned it!). So no, it's not about being judged for some people. It's about not putting up with inadequacy, incompetence or downright dangerous idiots.

Or she was a 'shit' parent. Sorry, my phone automatically changed shit to the.