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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

*SENSITIVE* AIBU to think some people come across as ignorant nobs about suicide? *TRIGGERS*

290 replies

SelectAUserName · 19/02/2014 07:58

FB (sorry!) friend posted a status update complaining about being late home last night because someone threw themselves under their train. She and one of her FB friends (who I don't know) swapped several comments which included the phrases "selfish", "inconsiderate", "I would quite like to get home and enjoy my life thank you very much" etc.

I posted fairly mildly saying that it must have been frustrating but at least it was a minor inconvenience for her in the scheme of things and it was safe to say the other person, not to mention the driver, had had a far worse day. FB friend then claimed it was "light-hearted" and said they could post what they liked on their own news feed. I said that for some people, there is nothing "light-hearted" about suicide and they couldn't guarantee some of those people wouldn't be using social media; if they chose to post about a sensitive subject they could expect to get pulled up on it.

It wasn't long before I was accused (by FB friend's friend IYSWIM) of being "PC" (oh, how original) and of "attacking" my friend. I reiterated that this was an emotive subject and that maybe they should step back, re-read with an open mind and see that they weren't coming across as very empathic. And then I left it as it was starting to get to me.

AIBU to think that a woman in her 30s should have a bit more compassion about someone in the absolute depths of despair? Or am I being a sanctimonious old trout and "dictating" (that word was used too) what people can and can't say on their FB timeline?

I think if she'd said "sorry, I know I came across as a bit me me me - I was just letting off steam" it wouldn't have bothered me, but to use the word "light-hearted" as self-justification (there was nothing inherently humorous, OTT-for-effect or anything else to suggest light-heartedness about her OP - just a straight rant at have her evening plans disrupted) seemed totally inappropriate.

OP posts:
FoxesRevenge · 19/02/2014 13:59

runnermum You've done one the best things possible by opening up and telling this to us. You can also call the people Select suggests.

We are always here for you. Post on MN anytime you need to talk.Doesn't matter how insignificant you think it is, we will listen.

scottishmummy · 19/02/2014 14:00

Runnermum,if you're known to a cmht.call them immediately. Or call GP
You can go to a&e no appt just turn up,ask for psychiatric team
08457 90 90 90 Samaritans

Might not seem it now,but there is support,there are options.take care

Coconutty · 19/02/2014 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

takingsmallsteps · 19/02/2014 14:02

Runner mum,

I want to tell you that you matter. That you mean something to this world. You matter.

Please ask for help. The world can be so much brighter. I have been where you are and I am still here.

You are worth helping.

Xx

HoratiaDrelincourt · 19/02/2014 14:02

runner I'm sorry that you can't see the wood for the trees at the moment. Please do call Samaritans or indeed 999 if you're desperate. They're experts as MNers are not.

A very wise person once said to me that one shouldn't commit suicide on one's worst day - that's when it's just about to get better.

LosingItSlowly · 19/02/2014 14:06

I'm someone who could easily have been another suicide statistic, leaving my DH and children wondering what had happened and how I could do it to them.

What I was, was psychotic. It came out of nowhere a few months after the birth of my son. I had got quietly manic, and then psychotic.

My beliefs were strange and shifting, but ultimately I believed I had been contacted by the 'real' reality, and that I had been living in a kind of simulation. My 'real' family were all on the other side waiting for me, all I had to do was destroy my body to end the simulation.

I could easily have chosen death by train, because to my mind, no one would have been affected by it, nothing here was 'real'.

I was fortunate enough to have triggered some closer observation from GP and family when I still had enough insight to think maybe something wasn't right. And a short period as an inpatient on medication saw me through the episode that absolutely would have resulted in suicide had I not been an inpatient.

The worst part to me now, is that if I had not spoken up about my strange thoughts (before they became suicidal), no one would have known I had become so mentally unwell. I was functioning extremely well (better than ever actually, due to increasing mania).

It would have come out of nowhere, and everyone would have been left wondering why. It breaks my heart to know how close my family were to going through that, and it breaks my heart to know how many families actually are. Thanks
I think 'death by mental illness' is very apt.

everlong · 19/02/2014 14:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gruntfuttock · 19/02/2014 14:13

It is worth bearing in mind also that if a person who is severely clinically depressed suddenly seems to 'cheer up' it could mean that they have decided to kill themselves. It is the knowledge that the pain will soon be over that causes this recognised phenomenon.

LosingItSlowly · 19/02/2014 14:14

A long time ago, yes everlong. Probably a year or so now. The baby I had at the time is now a mischievous toddler, and another baby on the way now. This time I will be very careful in the postnatal period!

everlong · 19/02/2014 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishmummy · 19/02/2014 14:28

Runner,please seek support in real life
Mn is great forum,but your thoughts/feelings need real life support
Encouragingly with treatment you can feel less desperate

givemeaname · 19/02/2014 15:15

Apologies if this has already been said or the thread as moved on, I have only read the first couple of pages.
I think the actual act they chose is selfish but realise they must be such a desperate state to even consider it. I do however think if someone choses to end their life then they should do it in a way that doesn't impact innocent others - for instance, hanging yourself when you KNOW your family will find you, jumping in front of trains - drivers will need counselling, overdosing at home KNOWING your child or loved one will find you, shooting yourself in the head in the family home are totally unacceptable in my mind and are selfish. I have known of two people to commit suicide and both left unforgettable scars and images for those that found them. Anyone who feels like committing suicide - please believe people when they say they can help, help is out there - be willing and open to accept it, every life IS worth living!

zeezeek · 19/02/2014 15:33

24 years ago today my fiancé killed himself by standing in front of a train. We had grown up together and I knew that even at 8 years old, there was something different about him, something sad - a kind of melancholy. Later, when we had started University, he admitted that was about the time when he started having suicidal thoughts.

Adam was intelligent, sensitive, funny and good looking. He sailed through school and college and, at the time of his death, was training to become a vet. To the outside world he had everything going for him, including a devoted fiancée, loving parents and a younger brother and sister that idolised him.

When he first admitted how he felt: as if he was in a black hole and there were all these negative thoughts going round and round in his head and he could never stop them, people didn't believe him. They just looked at him, what he had and told him that he had everything going for him.

At 19 he was committed to a psychiatric unit for a week. He had started talking about suicide. His parents were so worried that they arranged for him to see a (private) psychiatrist and he organised the "break" in the hospital.

On his release, the first thing he did was buy a Stanley knife. He kept it with him all the time. He called it his comfort blanket.

For the next year he continued to talk about suicide. Whenever he left the house, or our flat, or whenever he was somewhere other than University or home - I worried that he had done it. These were the days before mobile phones. Eventually, his other friends, family and I managed to arrange things so that one of us were always with Adam.

About a week before he died he stopped talking about suicide. Looking back, that was when he finally made up his mind to die.

The day he died he went to a lecture and then went missing. We drove around to all the places where he would have gone: the library, the bar, a coffee shop that he particularly liked, the bench in his favourite park, the church. We searched for 3 hours, but none of us (his best friend, his girlfriend and myself) could find him. I phoned his parents at about 6pm in the evening and admitted that Adam had gone missing. They got in their car and drove 200 miles to where we were at Uni.

At 7pm the Police arrived. He was dead. He had died at 12.40pm.

I have no memory of the next few days, and few of the next year. Someone once described suicide as like a bomb going off under the kitchen table and it really did seem that way. Adam wasn't selfish, he was ill and it was an illness that he had struggled with throughout most of his life. He didn't want depression. He wanted to be happy, he wanted to be the person that everyone thought he was, but he thought that he would never be able to do that - that he would never get better, even though he had all the help that he could get and his parents were amazing. He was loved so very, very much - but it wasn't enough for him. In a strange way, I know that he left us because he loved us and he genuinely thought that by staying alive he would be ruining our lives and becoming a burden to us. He had no control over how his disease made him feel - ending his life was the only thing he could control.

24 years later I am married with 2 DDs and I am very, very happy in my life - but there is still the sense of loss that I felt then and I sometimes still feel angry with Adam because he left me. But I also know that wherever he is, he's no longer tormented by those thoughts and he is finally at peace.

scottishmummy · 19/02/2014 15:38

That's a moving post about Adam.it clearly still resonates

zeezeek · 19/02/2014 15:50

Thank you. Yes it does.

mumof2teenboys · 19/02/2014 15:57

Thank you for sharing that, you are very brave. I hope that all of Adams friends have found peace over the years since losing him.

scottishmummy · 19/02/2014 16:01

I don't think it ever leaves you losing someone you love.and yes it's good to talk of them

falulahthecat · 19/02/2014 16:15

zeezeek
Thank you for sharing your experience. This About a week before he died he stopped talking about suicide. Looking back, that was when he finally made up his mind to die. struck a chord with me. A work colleagues step son killed himself, a few months back and she could'nt understand it, saying he had seemed so much better.

The thing a lot of people don't realise is that when you feel like you've made up your mind to end your life, you feel lighter - suddenly all the things that are wrong don't matter any more, seem easier to cope with, because you know that soon they won't be there.

We spoke about it a bit and I think she felt less guilty, less like she'd 'missed something', but everyone is different, as has been stated many times in this post, and it's so difficult to know what someone is really thinking, no matter how well you know someone, sometimes we don't know what's going on in our own heads, never mind trying to work out someone else's thoughts and feelings.

there is still the sense of loss that I felt then and I sometimes still feel angry with Adam because he left me. But I also know that wherever he is, he's no longer tormented by those thoughts and he is finally at peace.

I think this sums up so well how so many people feel about loved ones they've lost to suicide.

SelectAUserName · 19/02/2014 16:21

Oh zeezeek what a tragic experience, beautifully and respectfully told.

OP posts:
zeezeek · 19/02/2014 17:23

Thank you all. Adam's parents are both dead now. I stayed in touch with his family for a while after he died, but then they moved away and, to be honest, after a while we just kept upsetting each other because all we could do is go over and over everything that had happened - they reminded me of Adam and I reminded them of Adam, so it was easier to use the move to fade away from each other. My parents also knew them, as we'd grown up in the same village, and exchanged Christmas cards and so on for a few years....but they felt guilty because their child was still living and Adam's family felt angry with everyone for a while. There were so many completely illogical emotions associated with that time and sometimes my parents and I do feel guilty that maybe we should have stayed in contact more - but it felt the right thing to do at the time. Everyone needed a clean break. Not just from the death, but the months and years before as well. It's really hard to explain.

DIYapprentice · 19/02/2014 18:09

I think what's 'wrong' with this thread is that people are treating all suicides the same.

Yes, people do suicide when in the depths of despair, suddenly, unable to cope anymore.

Others choose to suicide with absolute clarity of mind - we see it as a MH issue because we can't imagine wanting to die. Many of these have planned their suicides very clearly, wills sorted, debts paid, appointments cancelled, etc. Some have even been reported as finally being happy and family members breathing a sigh of relief believing that they are finally getting over/on with it. But the happiness is the knowledge that at X time on Y day they will be ending it.

But if you have an obligation to someone such as in CouthMow's case (sorry CouthyMow to use you as an example) and you still plan to kill yourself, knowing that someone reliant on you will be so devastatingly affected then yes, you are being selfish about it.

I have to hold my hands up here in that my DH has always struggled with the idea of suicide. He has gone through very dark times, and been very close to it. He has even got himself an insurance policy that will cover suicide (yes they do exist, but they exclude suicide for a period of time, usually a few years). One day I face the risk that he does decide that this is it. If he does it leaving me in the lurch, or where our DC will find him then I will find it unforgivable, and he knows that.

And I am also that person on the train that is pissed off that I have been held up for however many hours (yes, hours) because of 'someone under the train at X station'. I don't badmouth the person, but I am allowed to be pissed off that I am going to be late, either to an appointment, or back to my DC, due to something so entirely out of my control, but that has been done by someone else on purpose. That person is an abstract, I don't know them, neither do I know their family. My empathy is an abstract empathy. But my DC or the person I am meeting with a very real to me, and I go out of my way to ensure that I am on time for them. If someone were to tell me the real situation of that incident then it becomes less abstract, and more real.

SelectAUserName · 19/02/2014 18:11

That makes perfect sense to me, zeezeek. Don't give yourself a hard time over not staying in touch. If Adam's family had felt ready to resume a friendship then presumably they knew where you, or at least your parents, were to make contact. It sounds as though you all dealt with it in the ways that were best for you under the circumstances.

OP posts:
SelectAUserName · 19/02/2014 18:13

Meant to add, I have de-friended the friend in question who originally triggered this thread. She was someone I knew IRL, an ex-colleague and someone with whom I shared an interest in a particular hobby so it will be sad not to exchange updates about that, but life is too short to make excuses for people's ignorant bullshit on something so emotive.

OP posts:
GimmeDaBoobehz · 19/02/2014 18:20

Suicide itself is only selfish because it is done thinking of themselves, not of others so by definition is selfish. However, it's normally from desperation and a lot of mental pain someone does it. Nobody decides to kill themselves lightly, I'm pretty sure of that.

Whether it's selfish or not depends on the method.

Overdose where a trained paramedic will find them, as they don't live with someone else - to me isn't so selfish.

If someone jumped infront of a train, killed themselves and their kids were going to find them or did it somewhere publicly yes I would find that pretty selfish because they are choosing to get others involved aren't they?

The more gruesome and the more people that will be affected, the more selfish it is.

I do think it's crass to make comments about how selfish the person was though because they obviously felt desperate at the time and felt like it was their only option. The method doesn't seem nice though and I can't see why they'd want to go that way.

scottishmummy · 19/02/2014 18:20

Perhaps there's a need to acknowledge suicide is experienced differently by many
And the emotions,feelings,thoughts are raw and evoke strong response
In that respect there are many things that feel right and wrong regard suicide. And we may not reach agreement