*SENSITIVE* AIBU to think some people come across as ignorant nobs about suicide? *TRIGGERS*

[SelectAUserName]

FB (sorry!) friend posted a status update complaining about being late home last night because someone threw themselves under their train. She and one of her FB friends (who I don't know) swapped several comments which included the phrases "selfish", "inconsiderate", "I would quite like to get home and enjoy my life thank you very much" etc.

I posted fairly mildly saying that it must have been frustrating but at least it was a minor inconvenience for her in the scheme of things and it was safe to say the other person, not to mention the driver, had had a far worse day. FB friend then claimed it was "light-hearted" and said they could post what they liked on their own news feed. I said that for some people, there is nothing "light-hearted" about suicide and they couldn't guarantee some of those people wouldn't be using social media; if they chose to post about a sensitive subject they could expect to get pulled up on it.

It wasn't long before I was accused (by FB friend's friend IYSWIM) of being "PC" (oh, how original) and of "attacking" my friend. I reiterated that this was an emotive subject and that maybe they should step back, re-read with an open mind and see that they weren't coming across as very empathic. And then I left it as it was starting to get to me.

AIBU to think that a woman in her 30s should have a bit more compassion about someone in the absolute depths of despair? Or am I being a sanctimonious old trout and "dictating" (that word was used too) what people can and can't say on their FB timeline?

I think if she'd said "sorry, I know I came across as a bit me me me - I was just letting off steam" it wouldn't have bothered me, but to use the word "light-hearted" as self-justification (there was nothing inherently humorous, OTT-for-effect or anything else to suggest light-heartedness about her OP - just a straight rant at have her evening plans disrupted) seemed totally inappropriate.

I've name changed for this because I am not brave enough to post this in my usual nickname.

I've attempted suicide. I was utterly broken. I was (still am) the ultimate failure. Everything I tough turns to manure. I degrade peoples lives by just existing, by them having to see me, walk past me, speak to me. I waste precious resources by existing. I am evil, so selfishness comes naturally to me, but by God people will be better off when I am dead. I did at one point think I was ill, but no-one in the CMHT would help me, so I quickly worked out that they knew I was a waste of space too.

I am so sorry for all of the people who have shared their suffering on this thread. I don't have any fancy words to offer or any insight other than into my own mind, but I feel deeply for you.

Ignaz - I can see you're in pain. But, no one who is truly evil, would actually ever acknowledge that they were evil. So I have to disagree with you there.

Hurting, yes, to such a level that your pain is intolerable, yes. Evil? No.

When you're hurting its very hard to actually succeed in anything, because you're expecting it to fail.

I feel for you, I hope being on MN gives you some comfort and friendship.

Everlong,of course I understand.you advocate and speak up fir your son
Such misunderstood topic.I've read on mn people say oh if they discuss suicide it's not serious
When in fact,research shows many vulnerable people have discussed suicide prior to attempts

Falulah
This happened in the UK too, it seems Poland is still a bit behind

Really? I've been to funerals of suicides (I'm sure at least 1 was catholic AFAIR) and they had the service in church then buried in normal graveyard.
It's not to do with Poland being behind - but more to do with them being devout.

I'm not Catholic and I know in practically all religions it's still a sin but it hugely upsets me that the children of God are basically shunned to spend eternity as an outcast because they had a MH issue and rightly or wrongly found they couldn't continue in this life :(

CM - No one is saying that you're wrong for feeling how you do, they are Your feelings, they are valid and nobody can make you feel differently. You had to live it and you continue to have to deal with it.

I don't have any experience of a close family member committing suicide but like you, I have been suicidal myself more than once and admitted to hospital because of it. Also like you, it was my children that ultimately stopped me but I still seriously thought about it. I thank them for existing because without them I wouldn't be here today, I know that. Fact!
What I do believe is that we, those who didn't finish it, had enough left in our brains to stop and think about what we were contemplating, we weren't as far gone as those who did see it through.

Runnermum
Please don't feel ashamed, please please, I beg you - try to get some help.
The world honestly won't be better WITHOUT you - please believe and try to think about that. I know it's easy for me to say but honestly I've been, as have others here, where you are, maybe not for the same reason but at the same place.
Talk to us if you'd like to. I know at the point you're at you think nobody and nothing could possibly help but it can, really it can.
My heart goes out to you and I want to cry knowing you feel this way. Xx

Absolute myth #1

That people who are serious about suicide do not talk about it

Absolute myth #2

That 'cry for helps' are somehow less serious- the research shows that many of them go into be successful in their attempts

Absolute myth #3

That talking about suicide will 'make' a suicidal person more likely to do it

Absolute myth #4

That asking somebody if they have thoughts of harming themselves or ending their life will somehow 'trigger' these thoughts.

frogslegs35
Did you actually read the rest of my post? :/ I said a couple hundred years ago! Are you over 100 years old?

And I would consider it a bit behind, perhaps I shouldn't have flippantly said 'Poland' was behind but in this particular Polish Church at least, they are holding on to archaic views, as in 1983 this happened:

Although the Catholic Church had long prohibited funerals for suicide cases, dissenters began to challenge the taboo in the twentieth century. Following a discussion within the Church, a papal decree reversed the Church's official position on suicide in 1983, allowing Catholic families to bury their loved ones according to Catholic rites regardless of cause of death. The Church has not changed its official stance against suicide, but it does not wish to cause further aggravation to the family of the deceased. Furthermore, according to the Catholic United for the Faith website, the Church recognizes the role mental health and external factors can play in the decision to commit suicide.

DP just came home and told me his 15 year old cousin has tried to hang himself.

So strange when I've been talking about this all day.

Are you over 100 years old?
Often feel like it but no :)
Sorry, due to wine I just answered pieces of your last post Falulah but yes, I read it all.

they are holding on to archaic views
Agree completely, (they are at one with the Vatican )

the Church recognizes the role mental health and external factors can play in the decision to commit suicide.
I sincerely hope this is recognised here but I won't hold my breath for it to happen soon :(

YANBU

Sorry to hear that falulah, I hope he's okay and manages to get appropriate help and support.

brokenhearted If he'd died of cancer instead of a mental illness, would you still say it was selfish? He didn't choose to suffer from depression/psychosis any more than a cancer patient chooses their tumour.

DIYapprentice it isn't really possible to explain to anyone else, but I know that I prompt evil to happen, therefore I am evil. I don't actually do the evil things myself, but because I exist I cause them to happen. When I first realised this, I wondered if it was illness, but I've had it confirmed that it isn't, it is just me. The world will be an awful lot better when I'm not in it. The only issues caused by my suicide will be administrative, so I just have to make sure that I tie up all the loose ends first, then I won't be an inconvenience. I don't think it will be selfish, although I will have to succeed this time so that no more resources are wasted on me.

A boy at my uni committed suicide last year. He jumped from the roof. Landed where I had been stood less than an hour before. I never once thought he was selfish, I just despaired that he felt this was his only option.

Suicide is sad, not selfish. Also, do we have the right to force someone to live just to make us feel better?

Runner please seek some advice. All is not lost

Ignaz I don't want to sound patronising, but that sounds like illness talking. I don't know who "confirmed" your suspicions to you but I think it would be extremely beneficial to you to get a second opinion urgently, as I think there is a lot more help out there available to you and it would be very far from a waste of resources.

Oh don't worry about me, I'm just trying to show that suicide isn't necessarily about 'selfishness' in the way most people would define that word. Whilst I'll be pleased to not have to be responsible for so many evil things, and having to think up ways to punish myself, I also know it will be better for other people that I'm not around.

I can only repeat: you do not sound evil, you sound ill. Help is out there. Please try to access it before your condition forces you into a regrettable situation. Your post is very redolent to me of aspects of LosingItSlowly 's description of her period of psychosis.

I agree with SelectAUserName.

When I became ill, I was absolutely convinced I was nothing of the sort. I knew the truth, the signs had been there my whole life, everyone trying to convince me otherwise was part of the game etc. etc.

The only way to know you're not ill, is to go be evaluated properly, starting with a visit to the GP.

If you're not ill, you have nothing to lose. If you are, you have everything to gain.

Ignaz

Are you under the care of a psychiatrist, CMHT or other MH professional?

These kinds of beliefs sound like they are as strong in your mind as the belief I have that I am female. However i have been very sure of things in the past and I have been mistaken. Have you ever been mistaken about anything ever even when you thought you were sure? Think back to when you were younger perhaps.

The smallest chance that you might be mistaken means it is worth sticking around to check.

The problem is that when you have these type of beliefs (that you have powers), you look for confirmatory evidence and the skewing in your mind means you will see it, even when it isn't really there.

I am asking you to contact your MH team or other professionals. even if you do it to humour me (as a stranger). At the moment when you look ahead to your future you are likely seeing more of the same- these awful feelings and thoughts. And of course it is only natural and perfectly understandable that you have had enough of shouldering what feels like an awful lot of responsibility for the suffering of others.

Stop trying to look into the future and deal with the more immediate here and now. Picking up the phone and confiding in somebody can be the first step in learning hot to manage and hopefully soon, tamp down these thoughts.

As I said earlier, I have seen the CMHT and they can't offer me anything as I am not ill. I do appreciate the concern, but please don't waste time on me. I am so not worth it, you will have to take my word for that!

Ignaz

I choose to believe that the reason you are posting on here talking to us is because a tiny part of you wants help.

Feeling unworthy of help and being unworthy of help are two different things and it is up to me and other posters to make a decision about whether we want to reach out and help you . That decision IS out of your hands.

You need to go and be re-assessed. CMHTs can be wrong. I am a mental health nurse and i have made mistakes in the past. I HAVE BEEN WRONG. And if that is the case then maybe the staff who saw you were wrong too.

Did you try to conceal your thoughts? Did you tell them everything?

No CMHT that I have ever encountered (and I have encountered a lot) would ever tell a patient they were evil. I worked in some famous units for people with mental health problems who also committed serious crimes, even murders and I would not use the word evil about them because it is not a useful term.

Did you feel that they thought you were evil? Sometimes bad feelings about ourselves can be turned by our minds so they feel they are coming from outside of us. And with psychosis, the more ill you are, the less ill you think you are.

Ignaz, unfortunately due to cuts and more cuts, many CMHTs are equipped to deal with little more than 'standard' (not that there is such a thing so apologies for the lazy shorthand) reactive depression, anxiety, PND and the more common presentations of psychosis. For you to have been referred to a CMHT in the first place suggests that a GP somewhere, sometime, had sufficient concerns about your health to make the referral.

I suggest you return to that GP and ask about a referral to a clinical psychologist. There will almost certainly be a waiting list but as LosingItSlowly points out, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Suicide is selfish did I really read that.
I work with suicidal people and I can tell you they are NOT.
How judgemental, ill-informed and damn right nasty is that.

To the women who have lost children on this thread my heart broke to read your messages. And to all those who have lost loved ones, it's so awful.

Funny, I used to be one of those tut tutters about suicides and trains. Didn't occur to me with three failed suicide attempts that I was actually just the same. I certainly don't think that now. Death and the thought of death and how to achieve it was a constant companion for over 30 years until I received my bipolar diagnosis and started treatment.

Even now being pregnant, I had a depressive psychotic and hallucinations episode in my first trimester that saw me nearly harm me and my baby if my dh hadn't woken up on time to stop me.
Interestingly it correlated with a dip in the lithium in my bloodstream combined with a very stressful event to trigger.

What I have realised is that the idea of killing yourself is so alien to the majority of people they can't comprehend what your mind is like to actually do it.

I've written that to show that even in treatment, you can still end it. Your mind is not your own. And everyone is different. No two experiences or treatment plan can be the same. We are driven by forces that can't be described but I assure you it is not fun and the mental pain and anguish is extreme.

For people saying how selfish it is - do you not realise that the reason why they've chosen a train is to be sure that it happens? You can't even begin to imagine the pain and anguish they are in. But that's OK you just keep calling people who don't think the way you do selfish.

Someone alluded to this way up thread and they imo are spot on. People who don't have an illness like this can't understand the driving need to end it all and I've found as humans we don't really have much tolerance for things with don't understand.

Doesn't excuse people making insensitive comments. Someone just died for God's sake. Good on you for blocking.

I have had one friend die jumping out in front of a tube and another hang himself. A few days before he had been convinced the radio had told him to do it. I didn't know I was sick and was just told I was difficult and stupid and had to move to a different country to get my diagnosis and treatment. Mental health awareness and understanding in the UK is shockingly bad and will become a huge scandal. As demonstrated by some of the posts on this thread.

Sorry, rant over. But no yanbu.