to think that women like this give the rest of us a bad name in the workplace

[HomeIsWhereTheGinIs]

I'm currently expecting my first child in the early summer. One of my team at work is expecting hers about a week before mine. And I'm really about to really lose my temper with her. She's resident in a different country where she gets two months of fully paid antenatal leave before starting her maternity leave so she's going off in about a month.

However, what's making me really cross is that she's obviously mentally checked out already. We work in a really high-pressure environment (city job) and she's one of the more senior members in my team of 17. She just sent me back her appraisal form (late) in preparation for her review later on this week, along with an email that says she doesn't see why she's been asked to do this review as she's leaving in a month. She's also started arriving late to meetings, delaying delivery of tasks, taking extra long lunch hours etc.

The review covers the whole of the previous year and although yes, she is starting her maternity leave soon, we're still paying her salary and will be obliged to do so for her antenatal lead and for a full year after her baby is born. So it really makes me cross that with all of this fully paid time off ahead of her, she's already trying to get out of doing her normal day-to-day job whilst she's still in the office. Why is it a one-way street with her doing all the taking?

This woman and her behaviour are why other women in our largely male industry office (myself included) are completely passed over for promotion once they're pregnant / have children because our male colleagues assume we'll all take this kind of approach. When I mentioned to our global head that this kind of attitude really makes me cross, he actually shrugged and said "That's just what happens. Women get pregnant and lose all interest in their job". She's ruining it for the rest of us. AIBU to want to mark her down in her review for this awful attitude? (Obviously I won't…but dear God I'm tempted!)

FW, the OP is titled: AIBU to think that women like this give the rest of us a bad name in the workplace?

The OP has made the link from this particular under performing employee to all other hypothetical female employees (regardless of performance) for us.

I want to thank most of the posters on here. I clicked on this thread thinking that she probably was giving all women a bad name, but now see that I was being an idiot.

This women is giving herself a bad name, and you're not wrong to be annoyed about her own performance. She's not responsible for that label being attached to anyone else - that's the responsibility of the sexist culture in your firm, and that's where your anger should be directed.

Someone up thread gave the example of this happening to men too - a gay man has to work harder. So clearly if a gay man works averagely hard, then the homophobic attitudes that prevail are his fault?!

My point is that this woman may bot be performing well but that isn't necessarily because she is slacking off in advance of maternity leave. Her poor performance or her struggle to motivate herself to work as hard as she used to could be due to a range of pregnancy-related problems such as insomnia, antenatal depression, sickness, fatigue, low immune system leading to lots of minor bugs, sciatica or similar pain...there are many issues caused or exacerbated by pregnancy. Some people may be very dismissive of them, believing their own experience of say, morning sickness, to be representative of everyone's - so they assume that feeling a bit queasy and puking once or twice is as bad as it gets and don't understand that for others it is a debilitating, relentless and exhausting condition. Or they might think a bit of disturbed sleep is nothing to complain about, not comprehending the overwhelming effect of insomnia. The OP is judging her colleague by her own experience of pregnancy which may be very different.

Yes I agree with that too, pregnancy just like so many other experiences varies hugely from person to person. Dare I say too, some people are better at pushing through tough things than others, doesn't make anybody better or worse as a person. The vitriol makes me think op actually needs a break.

tethers, yes, because she is concerned that by deliberately under-performing/withdrawing from her work, this employee is giving those with sexist views more fuel for their arguments.

My point was different: it was that the assertion 'something tells me that even if this woman had done so, the OP would still be annoyed about her letting down the side' is pretty much plucked out of the air. No one can know how the OP would have reacted in this hypothetical situation.

jelly, yes, she might have pregnancy-related health issues (and/or non-pregnancy-related health issues). I've said repeatedly on here that, if she does, then she should be supported by her employer. However, until now it would seem that she hasn't made her employer aware of any health issues, which is irresponsible at best.

She has, according to the OP, openly said that she thinks her pregnancy and upcoming mat leave means that she shouldn't have to have an annual review. It seems that she feels that being pregnant is a justification for skipping a review. And her actions suggest very strongly that she has, as the OP says, 'mentally checked out' already.

The point is that the OP must stay utterly professional in her dealings with this woman and take care not to allow her personal prejudices to enter into the annual review. We all have prejudice and we must all take care to guard against allowing those prejudices to influence an otherwise objective judgement.

I assume that the woman who is now pregnant has performed well in the last year and hence should get a good review and a commensurate bonus. No personal feelings or prejudices should enter into that. My personal observation is that professional women are often hyper-critical of other women who do not live up to their own incredibly high standards.

The woman who is pregnant very possibly has decided that working 9 -5 is now all she can cope with and as she is leaving will get no bonus anyway in the current/future year so she is rightly not slogging 70 - 80 hours a week and working to the impossibly tight deadlines that the City is famous for on a project she will never see the end of.

A woman who is on maternity leave typically is passed over for bonus or has her bonus slashed even if she has worked for most of a year. It happens.

People in the City work incredibly hard, under enormous pressure to tight deadlines to very high standards few other people will ever experience at work and often at a very young age. Been there. Done that. However. that is not consistent with illness, pregnancy, bereavement, family or the ups and downs of life. Management in the City is often very poor. Highly skilled people and knowledge are the raw material of the City and making sure that those people are managed effectively is crucial.

I am a great believer that everyone needs a periodic sabbatical sometimes to gain perspective and the City should encourage that so people come back refreshed with more skills. That applies to men and women. Maybe that is what this pregnant woman needs - a sabbatical and then be encouraged to return.

Of course the OP must deal with it professionally. I'm assuming she will; she is just letting off steam on here.

I don't think she's talking about this person cutting down from 70–80 hours a week; she mentions extra long lunch breaks, which suggests that the employee is taking longer than she's entitled to.

I don't think it matters if she'll never see the end of a project. It's simply professional behaviour to hand over a job properly.

FW you're a marvel! You're quite right, letting off steam was my main aim. Isn't that part of the point of this site? And I do enjoy a good exchange of opinions (including those opposed to mine) when I'm all fired up, although I am genuinely irritated and fed up with this woman.

I'm not quite sure why people think I'd judge anyone, pregnant or not, for being genuinely ill, (or why people can't just disagree with me rather than wishing that my time with my own baby will be as stressful as possible as a punishment for the way I feel now - thanks for that). A colleague ended up having to take several weeks off a few months ago when she was pregnant and nobody batted an eyelid. Know why? Because she kept us up to date and told us what was happening. So the work of the team wasn't interrupted, and she got the time she needed.

From some of the comments on this thread, I think that a lot of the opinions about life in high-pressured jobs appear to come from people who have been watched Boiler Room a few too many times. We're not all evil in the city you know. And the maternity packages are quite good. Don't believe the hype about all of the women coming back after ten days. The tangents people zoom off on with their city stereotypes are quite amusing, although I am having an ELCS at a private hospital so I must admit that the pp accusing me of that was right, not that I can see that it has anything to do with this thread. No doubt that makes me a vile person. I probably bite the heads off baby bunnies for fun too.

Sorry to disappoint those rushing to defend this woman as she regularly turns up late, delays work and tries to get out of meetings but from a professional point of view, as she hasn't told me that she's ill, what else can I do but pull her up on her behaviour whilst fuming at her?

That's the crux of my whole issue really, professionalism. It is indeed possible to combine a high-pressure career with a loving family life you know. And there's no excuse for just giving up and leaving your colleagues to pick up the slack because you just can't be bothered any more. A previous poster likened this to people that become lazy once they've handed in their notice and I agree that male or female, that's reprehensible too. In or out. Decide whether or not you want to work and stick with it.

The reason that this woman's behaviour irks me so much is because it's unnecessary. The law provides for women to go on maternity leave early if work becomes too much for them. But she won't. She'd rather spend time (less than everyone else) in the office doing a half-arsed job so that other people have to step in and finish her work. And then despite the "wouldn't it be nice if everyone were nice" brigade insisting that the world should just stop being sexist (End Of Argument), senior people DO use her as an example of pregnancy being used as an excuse. I don't condone this thinking. In fact I actively argue against it, but there are so few of us that it just looks bad. If I get to the point where excitement or whatever means that I don't want to focus on work, I'll go off early. I won't make everyone else pick up after me and make it harder for the women that come after me.

Conversely would you say it's not important to have female role models at work? That the success of one glass-ceiling breaking woman won't help others? Our actions, regardless of our gender, sexual orientation, age etc, do have an impact.

Again, just to clarify, she explicitly told me that she didn't think she should have to go through an appraisal because she's on mat leave a month from now. Ignoring the fact that she's being paid for a full months work before leaving. She told me why she didn't want to do it in writing. I'm not making assumptions.

I've moved her appraisal and will be very calm when I talk to her. I just think it's a shame. She used to be such a great worker.

Again OP I totally agree you need to handle her and her behaviour is inappropriate.

It is interesting that you think that gay people need to toe the line too to blaze a trail for other gay people too. I do not agree, I do not represent my gender, my colour or my creed in the workplace I represent me.

Btw I don't care how you deliver your baby but I not sure why it is relevant to this thread.

anothernumberone agreed. I was a bit surprised at the private hospital jab by a pp as it sticks out like a sore thumb.

But I didn't say gay (or any other) people had to blaze a trail for others. I said our actions, good or bad, do have an impact on the ways others are seen.

Home, you seem determined to polarise the argument and focus on what this woman is doing wrong.

This woman could be the biggest pisstaker in the world; she could roll in pissed at half eleven, light up a Benson at her desk and shout abuse at colleagues until twelve when she disappears for a three hour lunch, returning only briefly to query her maternity pay and punch a senior manager in the face before going home at quarter to four. It isn't really relevant to the objections most of us have to your OP; your assertion that she represents all female employees and has a duty to toe the line, without questioning the sexist practices which make this so.

Yes OP but you, you have extrapolated her behaviour out to represent every other woman. It is you who is being misogynistic. You do realise that don't you? and now you are speaking about how in your opinion gay people have to toe that line too, you are, not your boss, not a male co worker, you. You cannot change other people but you can change yourself.

tethersend Whilst I disagree that she represents all female employees, I do think that those that are sexist in our office use her as an example (albeit obviously a bad one) to support the nonsense they spout.

But the main thing I want to say to you is that your scenario made me grin. Not what you were going for but you have to admit it's funny. The image of her smoking in the office and then popping someone on the nose really made me laugh :)

"Don't believe the hype about all of the women coming back after ten days. The tangents people zoom off on with their city stereotypes are quite amusing, although I am having an ELCS at a private hospital so I must admit that the pp accusing me of that was right, not that I can see that it has anything to do with this thread. "

Obviously that choice is yours and may be for many reasons. It is not for me to pry and question that decision. However, if you are having ELCS because you feel you have to plan the birth around your job I think you need to ask why you feel that way.

I really do know the City extremely well and I know several women that have had ELCS because they were frightened to take time off at short notice to give birth for fear of upsetting their boss and their clients and damaging their career.

MoreBeta I think that's sad. I'm actually going to take the full year and although I'm the first to defend the right of any woman to go back whenever she wants, I think it's awful if women are doing that against their will. It needs to change.

If she was a good worker for what, a few years?, then don't write her off for a few weeks poor performance. Just talk to her as you would any underperforming employee.

Yy lamb zig.

As has been said, your annoyance is misplaced, the issue is the sexist senior managers who say (to you, a pregnant woman!) that "that's what women do".

The maternity package might be good, and anyway by law they have to give the year's leave, but it's what happens next and what you see around you. Do they agree to requests to PT working, to people working FT but shorter hours? Do senior managers with children have working partners (or is the expectation that they will have a partner covering everything at home)?

"It is indeed possible to combine a high-pressure career with a loving family life you know."

Possible, but not easy, if high pressure really means long hours. People who do this seem to have a stay at home wife (almost always a wife not husband) or one who works very part-time in a "lesser" and more flexible job; lots of family support (eg grandparents round corner caring for the DC); or two people working all the hours and a nanny.

"This woman and her behaviour are why other women in our largely male industry office (myself included) are completely passed over for promotion once they're pregnant / have children because our male colleagues assume we'll all take this kind of approach"

Home, this reads exactly like you think she represents all female employees.

And the description that tickled you? Just a normal day in the office for me

OP you're not just letting off steam on here. You spoke to your global head about it. You reinforced the message that it is acceptable to judge all women by the actions of one woman. You also reinforced the message that women are held back more by other women than they are by sexist institutions and sexist men who actually have the power to make decisions and change things.

OP

You're obviously articulate and assertive enough to argue against that stereotype when it pops up

I would be struck by the OP's complete lack of solidarity and support for another bump who isn't doing so well...

...but I suspect that she is stressed herself, and that her way of coping with it is to focus on taking the moral high ground over what someone else isn't doing rather than ease off the gas herself. I think we are all capable of exhibiting this unattractive "resentment valve" character trait in difficult situations - be it at work or over the washing up.

I think it's a bit of a shame that it has gone to the level of pointless invocations of the higher-ups, as having your knife out for someone in this situation offers no constructive outcome and will probably reflect poorly on you in the long run, OP.

I feel rather upset reading this. In my first pregnancy I had fairly standard first trimester tiredness and nausea, which did make me rather less useful than normal for a short period. A new boss had started around the time I got pregnant and she swiftly made it clear that she had formed a bad opinion of me because of this. The timing was dreadful.

Over the course of my pregnancy I felt worse and worse. I developed severe SPD that left me in constant pain. Because of my boss' existent attitude, and my (ironic) determination not to make an issue of pregnancy, I ended up with spiralling performance because I was so unwell and my boss demonstrated not one iota of sympathy or understanding. Other members of staff noticed and called it bullying as she stopped talking to me. I went on maternity leave at 34 weeks in the end as I could no longer move, and the relief was indescribable. She probably remembers me as a poor example of a woman in the workplace.

In my second pregnancy, no SPD, great boss, no performance issues at all.