to be puzzled when mums suggest they know what it's like to be a SAHM because they were once on mat leave?

[BarkWorseThanBite]

Two really nice mums - I like them both and we usually sit together at toddler group. However, more than a few times both have seemed to imply they know what's it like to be a SAHM because they took mat leave a couplel of years ago (till their babies were 9 months old).

Isn't that a bit like saying you know what's it like to be a single mum (I'm not) because your husband was away playing golf for a week?

Nothing against working mums at all - but the implication that they know what my life is like is a bit irritating.

AIBU?

Hear hear word

You didn't originally specify that you thought the decision to be a sahm was just better for you, Bark. You generalised about people making decisions on whether to raise their own children or not. It made you sound very judgmental about parents who work.
I don't really understand what you are saying on this thread. On the one hand you weighed everything up and decided that, although you had the choice to work, staying at home was best for you. On the other hand you are complaining that your friends don't understand how hard things are for you because you don't have a job to go back to. Are you more upset about not having a job than you thought you would be?

Agree with many posters who say there is a difference, emotionally if not physically. After 9 months of mat leave my friends started returning back to work and initially I did gave a bit of an identity crisis. I got more involved with my local community and I am pleased with my decision but there's still a part of me craving that professional prt of life.

As for "raising your children" I think in every case this is a joint effort. Whilst the parents do make the majority of decisions (discipline, diet, financial etc.) and build an emotional relationship with children, anyone who spends time with the children (caregivers, friends etc.) is also having some input. As a sahm I do - at present - have more input than if my children spent most of their day in daycare. It is up to me alone to provide a stimulating environment including opportunities to learn and play in addition to discipline. Once my dc start school, some of this will be provided by school (hence why school choice is so important). Of course I take overall responsibility.

What is it about the competitive parenting?

SAHM for almost a decade here. Have had stick for it too. I chose to do this from having DC. It was the best decision, for us, as I see it. Extended family hundreds of miles away and SEN into the mix it was a saving grace at one point. No regrets!

I don't expect people to understand my life exactly as no one leads exactly the same life. I metaphorically shrug my shoulders a lot! Thankfully most of the people who gave me a hard time seem to have given up. I am much more than a job title, when people ask me I just say I don't work and end up telling them how I have been spending my time, interests etc.

And whilst a wohm does do nany if the jobs do w by a sahm in addition to their own work, they cannot do everything. There are simply not enough hours in the day. If a child spends a part of their day at daycare, this us time when the wohm is not taking direct responsibility for their play, learning, discipline and emotional well being (how can they, they're not present?) I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Some children thrive in a daycare environment. But it is different from bring a sahm without a job outside the home that calls on them to make use of daycare services. To the op, I think the ladies were just trying to empathise and clearly touched a raw nerve. Perhaps chat to them done more?

Saying that being a sahm is making a decision to "raise your children yourself" is not just a comment on what is best for you.
It suggests that not being a sahm means that you are not raising your own children.

And no. Maternity leave is not "the same" as being a sahm. So what? There are similarities (already pointed out by many) and one might draw on those similarities in the act of bonding with other mums at a group later to find the sahm "puzzled" and "rritated" by your impertinence in assuming you know all about her life

Being a DW to your own DH is not the "same" as another DW's experience. That doesn't mean you don't have common ground on the issue of being married.
Frankly. I'm just grateful I have my DCs (touch wood) and I hope the women I know are less picky about my random chit chat.

towmhousemummy Im doing all that and working 30 hours at the mo which is a lot less hours than usual. Its still not that taxing. Your caring for little ones not doing something that intense.

"If a child spends a part of their day at daycare, this us time when the wohm is not taking direct responsibility for their play, learning, discipline and emotional well being (how can they, they're not present?)"

But children of SAHMs spend time in preschool and later school, too?

OhMerGerd Sat 15-Feb-14 05:16:30
If you're referring to the bit about SAH that involves raising children, sharing a life with a partner and running a home having hobbies, friends etc ... yes yabu ..of course we have an insight into what being SAHM involves. We SAH approx a third of the time what with Maternity leave, weekends, holidays etc.
If you're talking about the bit of being a SAHM that refers to loss of security, independence and sense of personal satisfaction/ achievement that earning your own living brings ... then no YANBU. I really cannot imagine what being a dependent is like but I do think it must be very hard and quite scary.

OhMerGerd I think this is closer to what I'm talking about. The first list though isnt' to do with being a stay at home. You dont' need to have a partner to be a SAHM, and all parents (presumably) do a range of child-rearing activities, like changing nappies and sorting out squabbles and blowing noses and the like. I don't think they give you an insight into what it is like to be a SAHP, just because all parents have done similar stuff with their kids. You might as well say you understand what it's like to be in a marriage because you've snogged a bloke, shared a taxi and made dinner once - and that's what married people do, and therefore you can completely understand what it's like to be married - in fact, when you shacked up with Flynn for 8 weeks last summer, that was just like a marriage really

Your second list is more what I'm thinking about. A SAHM has made a decision to become economically inactive in order to devote her time to raising her children. It is a big decision, and involves putting career goals on hold for a sustained period. You are definitely more financially vulnerable, and it can be quite scary - but SAHPs consider the benefits that they bring to the family in how the children will be raised and judge that they justify the risk and the downsides.

I'm sorry - but that is nothing like being on mat leave for a few weeks, is it?

Well I have been a SAHM - I 'qualify' for this accolade because I gave up my job on maternity leave.

However, perhaps Bark should rip that SAHM badge off me, because even though I resigned, I knew I wasn't giving up work forever. Later I freelanced, worked from home, went back part time - a whole portfolio of ways of supporting the family.

So presumably I have no idea about raising my children, even though I have got them successfully to teenage years.

Bark if you are still going to toddler groups, your children are young. Trust me, it all seems less important and intense as they get older and you may find you care, much less, about how other people are getting on with raising their children. Guess what, there is no perfect blueprint and lots of people have different experiences that can be of equal value.

Why does it matter? No two people have identical experiences in life, and people like to make connections with others. It's just social interaction. I don't for one minute suppose that anyone who says 'oh yes, tell me about it' or 'I know what you mean' or 'yes, I found that too' actually means that they understand, and share, every little nuance of your life choices.

It's just conversation. There's no need to try to ring-fence your choices and experiences and exclude other people from sharing any aspect of it. People have different experiences, but there will often be some overlap in some respects, and people like to find those common experiences.

I've been on maternity leave twice, and I've worked part-time, full-time, from home, partly from home etc etc. I currently work three days in one job, freelance part of one day and have DS2 the remainder of the time. I would say there are a fair few aspects of being a SAHM into which I have some insight. And me saying that doesn't mean that I understand every little bit of other people's lives - it just means I have some common ground and understanding with other women who have made choices that overlap with some of mine.

I work part time two weeks on and two weeks off. So I guess in the two weeks off I'm a sahm. Best of both worlds I guess as would not wish to be a full time sahm.

Also think the year I took off after dd born did give me a huge insight to decide it wouldn't be for me full time sahm.

Yabu

Do you still know what it is like to be working, or does your current sahm status mean your experience of working does not count?

Can OP clarify what she means? Like what exactly are we missing out on? Parenthood is bloody hard at times. The disturbed sleep, the monotony, the irrationality of toddlers, the mess, the lack of time with your DP or friends. That applies whether you have to work or not. Just because we work, doesn't mean we have Mary bloody Poppins filling in nicely for us whilst we are away.

Or in other words: have you lost your insight in to working life now that you no longer work?

The day to day shit is the same whether you're on ML or a SAHM. (I feel robbed though as my baby didn't bloody nap so ML was hard work.) Appreciate that the financial position is different, but the daily round of nappy changing, enforced 'fun' in church halls and hoovering is exactly the same.

Op get some new friends because clearly you don't like your current ones, and if I knew one if my friends thought or talked about me like this , I woulnt want them to be a friend.
Stop fretting about other people's choices you sound angry and bitter.

wordfactory Sat 15-Feb-14 07:59:54
I think one of the main issues that always comes up in these threads is the idea that if a parent works they're not raising their DC.
First, I'd be interested to know if those with that view believe their husbands are not raising their own DC. And is that how their DH feels? I'd be surprised if they did.
Second, it assumes that raising a child is actually to do with nappy changing and cooking and cleaning. But I question that. Does a disabled SAHM not raise her child because she can't change nappies or taxi her kids? Does a Dad with a cleaner not raise his child?
Surely raising a child isn't about who irons their clothes, but about who takes responsibility for them. Who provides for them? Who plans for them? Who is constantly considering their wellbeing?
This is what being a parent is about. And this is usually the hardest part and weighs far more heavily than considerations over packed lunches.

Wordfactory I don't think it's about whether parent are raising their kids or not, isn't it about how you are raising them If you look historically, children in the upper classes were wet nursed, presented to their parents for 20 minutes a day and sent to school aged 6. Parent still use prep schools today, and I'm sure all those parents considered themselves to be good parents.

I seem to have offended people by saying quite flippantly I wanted to raise my children myself - which was a shorthand for "I didn't want to delegate day to day care for my children for the majority of their waking hours in their formative years to somebody else, whom I didn't even know and only had a commerical realtionship with". Or I could have said "I believe under 5s should be cared for in the home by a parent". I'm not sure that would have offended anybody an less tbh.

However, I'm not saying it's easier to be a SAHM or harder - it is just different - and it is just my choice for my family - and I feel entitled to make it - and also that other parents are equally entitled to choose another way if that suits them better.

Ahh, Mary Poppins. Now she would be fab to have around.

OP
I just don't get why it irritates you.

Is 'puzzled' the new 'saddened'?

I can't bear OPs like yours...PA and dishonest.

You had an agenda as your last post clearly reveals ('I believe under 5s should be cared for at home by a parent').

I'd have admired you more if your OP had said 'I believe all women should be SAHMs'. Though I would still have though you were a bit of an unpleasant arse and disagreed with you wholeheartedly...

I think the ason it's easy to be offended (IMHO) is that you talk of choosing as though it's that simple. Just choose what your want and do it.
Not everybody has the option of being a sahm even if they wanted to.
Either money is needed to keep a roof over your head and put (insanely expensive) food on the table or ppl want to have an occasional treat, or small family holiday or to be able to afford DCs to go on a school trip.
An old(not seen in the last few years) friend of mine used to bang on about how it w important for her to be with the DCs when they got in from school and to prioritise their needs. She clearly was impervious to the fact she could only do this because her DH earned a gaad enough wage so they could afford it. she thought that having to buy supermarket brand laundry detergent was a significant financial hardship.

PooroldJumbo Sat 15-Feb-14 08:20:49
You didn't originally specify that you thought the decision to be a sahm was just better for you, Bark. You generalised about people making decisions on whether to raise their own children or not. It made you sound very judgmental about parents who work.
I don't really understand what you are saying on this thread. On the one hand you weighed everything up and decided that, although you had the choice to work, staying at home was best for you. On the other hand you are complaining that your friends don't understand how hard things are for you because you don't have a job to go back to. Are you more upset about not having a job than you thought you would be?

PooroldJumbo I'm not judgemental about parents who work. My husband works. I think it is up to every family to think about what works best for them.

I'm not complaining that my friends don't understand how hard it is for me. I think on balance my life is much easier because I'm a SAHM. I think juggling work and looking after children is far more difficult on a day to day basis. In all honesty, i think the difficult bits about being a SAHP come years down the line... what do you do after your children have grown up? Can you get back to meaningful work if that's what you want? None of us also know about how our choices are playing out in our relationships or in how our children are being raised. We are all making the best choices we can - but only when we look back in 20 years or so - or even longer, will we really know how we did.

I'm just surprised that other mums think doing mat leave gives an insight into being a SAHM.

I suppose what I'm saying is - deciding to give up your career to be a SAHM is one of the most significant lifestyle choices that a professional woman will make, and I'm surprised that people dont' see that.

Interested to have it clarified exactly what sahms do that wohm parents don't. I was 3 years sahm with ds but went back after 5 months with dd. ds is now 18 and I've worked pretty much full time for the last 15 years (worked full time prior to dc as well).

No one else has raised my dc apart from dh and me. Who did it if not us?
What housework have I missed out on?

I would say you're very lucky to have the choice OP. I have just spent 2 months at home and it was bloody brilliant. However I didn't think of myself as a SAHM, I've never actually heard that term used outside mumsnet, I was unemployed as far I was concerned.
You seem to be assuming all working mothers are out of the home all day every day when in fact many work school hours or nights and are around for their DC before/after school the same as non-working mothers.
As a single woman/parent I will always have to work and will readily admit to being envious of those who don't.
I can only dream of having space in my head to worry about such trivial nuisances.
I'm failing to understand why you care about the opinion of a couple of acquaintances. Personally I couldn't give a rat's arse what other people presume my life is like. You should try it, it's liberating.