to be puzzled when mums suggest they know what it's like to be a SAHM because they were once on mat leave?

[BarkWorseThanBite]

Two really nice mums - I like them both and we usually sit together at toddler group. However, more than a few times both have seemed to imply they know what's it like to be a SAHM because they took mat leave a couplel of years ago (till their babies were 9 months old).

Isn't that a bit like saying you know what's it like to be a single mum (I'm not) because your husband was away playing golf for a week?

Nothing against working mums at all - but the implication that they know what my life is like is a bit irritating.

AIBU?

There may be good quality nurseries but there are an awful lot of shite hence the gov probably having to put back the 2 year old scheme due to lack of good or outstanding provision.It has been widely reported and is a concern to Sutton.

Nurseries aren't recommended for under 2s,not getting why that has to be ignored or classed as wp bashing.

Oh and Happymumofone your posts are appalling. Jobs,people,stress levels and families differ.Me working full time with Dp's very stressful job would be very neg for all.I am looking for 2 days,there is nothing atm so a sahp I will continue to be until I find work that doesn't have a neg effect on our family.

I am a fantastic example for my daughter.I have a degree,I had a career,I saved and did what I wanted(became a sahp and didn't miss a minute of my much longed for dc growing up). I will do what suits us and makes me/us happy.I may retrain,get another degree- who knows.

If my dd achieves half of what I have I shall be very pleased.

TheRealAmandaClarke that made me laugh! Not easily done on a thread like this.

Not sure what I qualify as because I only work 20hrs a week! I do know when I am at work I miss my small peeps and when I am at home I miss work! My hubby also works away for weeks/ months at a time, when he's away I can't wait for him to get home ...yep you've guessed it when he's home I can't wait for him to go again as he upsets our routine....!! But being at home and my job both have challenges as does being with a partner / being single....I think it's all a challenge whatever you decide / have to do, but right now I am dreaming going away to nice hot country with no work, children or husband....!

Why are people talking about nurseries as the only childcare option? Round here very few families use nurseries because they are considered too expensive. The viable options are either childminder or parents working in shifts and sharing the childcare. Neither of them ime provides shitty childcare.

Great post by Maria waaaay back.

Would just like to add yes there are many ways to raise a child however many parents aren't getting the way they would choose.

Many,many parents want more time with their dc,would feel this is beneficial but simply aren't being helped to have it.Many want a part time work and feel this would help their family but can't get it.

Threads like this on MN portray sahp in the same neg light and wp as full time career women who love every minute.Sadly the vast maj who in RL fall in the middle get ignored and aren't getting what they feel would feel would benefit their family.

It's very sad and not progress.Choice is rapidly going and as regards having a family we're marching backwards imvho.

I'd choose a good childminder or nanny share 10x over.It's sad the gov aren't extending either option,helping with more parents to have a longer time at home,helping with returns to work or helping with flexible work options.Instead they'd rather offer wraparound in crappy school buildings for school age kids and pile em high nurseries for the younger bracket.

Anyhoo I'm off out to enjoy the sunshine with my kids.

Who says nurseries aren't recommended for under 2's? Is this government advice? Nhs advice? Who advice? Where does this blanket 'nurseries are not recommended' come from?

Janey

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that. But there's a big difference between saying what's worked or hadn't worked for your own individual situation, and extrapolating from that, that everyone else should think or do the same. The OP has been extremely judgemental about other people and its truly bizarre, because if she felt totally happy about her choices then I don't see for a minute why she would even care whether working mums know what staying at home is like

I agree with you. It is ignorance and narrow mindedness coupled with a sense of entitlement to voice one's every fleeting thought to all and sundry that can make life seem difficult sometimes.

In my posts I had hoped to just voice my experiences, no real extrapolating, except that being a SAHP (which I am) can be a completely justified choice and not every outsider will know the how and why unless they know the fine workings of your family.

Now voicing those experiences and my thoughts on them, I know, can be dangerous, as this can be perceived as judging other's situations. However this was not my intention.

Maternity leave is now a year long; plus the new, fabulous transferable leave is a massive step forward. Many people feel the balance is right and aren't hankering after 5,10, however many years off work.

Bonsoir - "use the extra time with their DCs to pass on specific skills that are not easily available for hire."

Tell me what are these special skills, which aren't available for hire and can't be taught on weekends, evenings, mornings or holidays? I'm intrigued.

I thought the OP brought up husbands pay in response to a posters comment regarding any claiming of tax credits or child benefit means that she is sponging off the tax payer

Which comes up quite frequently in these discussions

I am happy to say that I have learnt some good phrases on this and am now going to say I am on a career break (a fucking long one)

wonder if the disdain for people who 'out source ' childcare to elsewhere extends to all the husbands of the SAHMs? I mean, they've just passed on the raising of their children to someone with potentially no experience, no qualifications and no particular skills? Right ?

Or does the working parent still get the title of 'raising own child'?

I work from home. Don't know what that makes me.

I think some posters would do well to remember that insulting the OP if only to highlight her stupidity/nastiness means you're also insulting everyone else who've made similar choices!

It's more than a little ironic to have a go at OP for perpetuating clichés when you're doing the same thing yourself!

The thing is, being a SAHP is an unnecessary luxury borne of privelege in the developed world and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. People have worked alongside raising their chldren since we lived in caves, and the idea of having no other job than taking care of your own family is little more than a century old.

Now please don't think this applies only to working as a SAHP. There are plenty of other jobs in the developed world which are unnecessary. Anyone working in the beauty industry, the hospitality industry, personal trainers, politicians etc etc. They contribute to the overall economy in our current affluent society, but they're jobs that will be first up against the wall come the zombie uprising.

The difference is that there is no obvious extrinsic financial worth in being a SAHP, which exposes them to more criticism and judgement than other "luxury" jobs, though in reality, they may be contributing more than, say, a nail technician, in terms of the increased earning potential of their spouse who is freed from domestic contraints.

And of course I recognise that caring for, nurturing and educating children is hugely important. But so is providing food, such as growing the crops we eat and the cows the provide meat and milk. In the days of yore, everyone had their own fields and cows and took care of their families that way. The needs of society have changed, so now while agrigulture is as important as ever, we recognise that it's not practical for us all to have a cow and a cornfield in our back gardens. If you do happend to have a hobby farm, it's recognised as exactly that - a luxury and a hobby. Fine if you have the resources, but purely for your own enjoyment/benefit.

It's the same with being a long-term SAHP - fine if you have the resources, but don't pretend it's anything other than a luxury that you personally choose to indulge in.

I am a WOHM. It's low paid as I just came out of uni, in a coffee shop actually. I have to do it, but althoigh I would like a better paying job, I am happy with the working aspect. I haven't experienced mat leave when I was working, but that wasn't due to being a SAHM. I know vaguely what it is like to do the day to day tasks of baby rearing without a job to go back to, but as I was actually wanting a job, then I can't say I feel the same as most SAHMs, our outlooks would have been very different.

Imo, being a SAHM is a valuable decision to society. Being a WOHM is too. They both sacrifice many different things and by and large raise children who are probably equally well adjusted- looking at the children and adults I know- so I'm not sure how much of an impact it has on them. Both are usually doing what they think best for their child (and I think that a child knowing their parents have that attitude will have more of an impact than SAHM/WOHMing).

I work from home and am not a SAHM, in the sense that I am not available to my children during work hours...

To those posters who suggest that working mums 'part-time' parents can you please answer this:

Does a 'stay-at-home' mum who is married to a man who works full-time refer to herself a as a part-time wive? Or does she consider the women who work with her husband stand-in partners because they spend the whole working week together, are co-depended as members of a team, may eat lunch together, and even exchange emails during the weekend and holidays.

Of course not, but it's just as ludicrous to suggest working mothers are not mothers when at work.

These threads are always about self-justification.

What began as thinly veiled puzzlement became all about self sacrifice, an observation on what social interaction young children benefit from and eventually into an attack on child care workers. All interspersed with a lot of bleating about other posters being rude! The irony.

I think any valid points you may have had OP have been lost along the way.

I bet there's not a person here who isn't doing what they consider to be best for their family overall. Most people however don't feel the need to attack others for their choices, at least openly. They have the sense to know that all families are different.

In a few years your children will be older, people won't care. Believe it or not, you probably won't either.

"wonder if the disdain for people who 'out source ' childcare to elsewhere extends to all the husbands of the SAHMs? I mean, they've just passed on the raising of their children to someone with potentially no experience, no qualifications and no particular skills? Right ?

Or does the working parent still get the title of 'raising own child'?"

Very well put, it just takes one sexual encounter to become a parent whereas those working in childcare tend to be either training alongside or already qualified.

Following the logic that you are only a parent if you are with your child then presumably the partner that works is not raising the child nor is the sahp when the child is at school or being left at an activity, babysat for a night out etc

Tell me what are these special skills, which aren't available for hire and can't be taught on weekends, evenings, mornings or holidays? I'm intrigued.

Yes indeed, what are these mysterious skills that dd may be missing out on?!

AnnieLobseder - you are clearly not an economist .

Well said disappointed!

As I said up thread I work 4 days but as I'm a teacher I put in way more hours than that! I have teacher friends who work 5 days & I have a teacher friend who worked her 13 weeks after may leave & then quit.

We all do what works for our family. I'm happy in my choice - i do feel for parents who would love to SAH or vice versa, but can't for financial circumstances.

I think why these threads gets heated is some posters who add fuel to the fire by making contentious statements, such as nursery care is poor and shouldn't be for under 2s. DD has been in private nursery since she was 10 months and she'll be 3 soon. Same nursery, same staff, outstanding according to Ofsted. I'm happy, if I wasn't I'd move her. Why would any parent put up with substandard childcare?

janey68 - nurseries are an expensive option in the UK not because they are a superior form of childcare but because of the specific economic model (for profit) that the UK misguidedly chose to promote. You do realise that nursery fees go towards paying Canadian retirees' pensions, not just on taking cars of DC? At least CMs and nannies do what what it says on the tin...

Annie who says SAHPs don't work alongside caring for their children?

As I have said add SENs a and SNs into the mix and working can be made doubly difficult whilst attending appointments and advocating for your child as well as caring for your child.

This is just one scenario. You might care for elderly parents or have multiple small children to care for (child care costs can really add up).

Choosing to stay at home is not always a luxury. It can be seen as necessity or at least a sensible choice in some circumstances.

Bonsoir- I'm not sure what pearl of wisdom you're trying to teach me now, but my point about nurseries being relatively expensive was not to do with any claim that they are superior. I was pointing out that a parent who can afford day nursery in the UK is likely to have other options open to them- childminder, nanny share etc. Ergo, parents are not resorting to it as the cheapest option.