to be puzzled when mums suggest they know what it's like to be a SAHM because they were once on mat leave?

[BarkWorseThanBite]

Two really nice mums - I like them both and we usually sit together at toddler group. However, more than a few times both have seemed to imply they know what's it like to be a SAHM because they took mat leave a couplel of years ago (till their babies were 9 months old).

Isn't that a bit like saying you know what's it like to be a single mum (I'm not) because your husband was away playing golf for a week?

Nothing against working mums at all - but the implication that they know what my life is like is a bit irritating.

AIBU?

" I can also gauge the implicit message between the lines, usually dropped in casually with the sole intention of causing offence." -which was it seems the original purpose of this thread.
I wasn't been patronising. I don't think you have understood the context of people's responses to this thread hence you saying sahms have been attacked throughout.

Well I said it yesterday in a wohm SAHM thread. I have never ever met anyone in real life who has said anything disparaging about either type of mum and I have friends doing both. In the real world people know why people make decisions about why they will do either and they understand that no 2 families have the same set of circumstances. On the other thread I also wrote that I think someone who would make disparaging remarks in real life about people who do either are idiots with irrelevant opinions.

Btw I have 3 kids so when I was on maternity leave I had school runs, homework and no child care for 2 x1 year maternity leaves. I think that gives you a reasonable insight into what being a SAHM is like. In the same way as if a SAHM took a year in the workplace would make them a wohm for the year.

As an aside because I can't get excited about the topic.

Is 'daycare', like 'gotten' creeping into English English? When did this happen?

OhMerGerd Sat 15-Feb-14 10:38:25
"Depends how you want your children to be raised and what values you think are important. I'm not one who sees many benefits from any one person being financially inactive and dependent on others for the food they and children eat, clothes on their backs or roof over their head. I'd be very concerned and quite frankly ashamed if I did not make use of my skills, talents and education and would consider that to be huge risk to how my children were being raised, to set them an example that involved a parasitic dependency on another person, or a family trust fund or the state. In fact I've always felt that such an example in 21st century is a huge risk to children's future well-being and development and DP and I have moved hell or high water not to expose them to that risk. It would have been easier time wise for one to SAH but weighing it all up we decided that taking that decision would just be for us as parents to make our lives easier and that the children would benefit from learning independence, socialising with their peers and developing skills in a safe and secure envirlaziness is not a good enough excuse to"

OhMerGerd Am just going out, but thought this was so intensely stupid I had to respond.

First, having children inducing a state of dependency in pretty much all families. Nearly 90% of families are entitled to some sort of welfare support (tax relief, child benefit, child tax credit). My family is not one of them.

Second, I am making use of my skills and education. I am raising my children, instead of delegating it to someone who can only find minimum wage employment in a nursery.

Thirdly, I am not dependent on my DH. We are an inter-dependent family unit, and he is as dependent on me to perform my role in the family as I am on him. We are a team, and work together to achieve our shared goals. You might like to note, that marital income is a shared asset.

Fourthly, babies don't need to socialise, and preschoolers benefit best from short sessions of group play (say a couple of hours a day - no more). The best role models for little children are people who are there, with them, demonstrating how to behave well, and whilst worklessness might be a problem, work in the home is just as valuable as paid work.

Right - now I really am going out for the day. Have fun all

This thread is moving very fast & becoming quite heated!

Just wanted to make a comment regarding OP's previous post: I think the difference is about whether the separation is for the benefit of the child or the parent. Someone who is using 8 to 6 daycare for a 10 month old - the baby doesn't benefit from this - it's for the parent. A 3 year old going to preschool - the parent may appreciate the break, but it is state funded because it benefits the child.

I find this highly offensive. DD is in childcare twice a week from 7.30-5 & with her grandma once a week from 7-5. This is for the benefit of the FAMILY. If I was a SAHM we couldn't afford day trips/holidays/activities - travelling & experiences are important to us a family. Another family may have different values but I want DD to see the world & experience new cultures. I don't just mean 1 week away all-inclusive to Spain - we travel. My working means DD will have a rich & cultured upbringing full of different experiences.
This is what's important to us. I don't judge the way anyone raises their child, I expect the same courtesy.

I kind of understand where you are coming from (I think) OP. I think that women on mat leave will understand the day-to-day stuff about being at home with small children. But for me, psychologically it was quite different to say "I'm an X and I'm on mat leave at the moment" - I was quite unprepared for how it would feel to not be able to say "I'm an X" any more. And I speak as someone who was pretty successful in my career but never felt defined by it and was very clear I wasn't going back to it (if I'd not had children I'd have been looking to change direction anyway)

But I'm sure your friends were thinking about the relentless day to day stuff OP. And in that respect I think you are maybe being a little bit U.

Btw neither myself nor dh view me as "parasitic" - we work as a team in our house and value each of our roles. I'd also say I've made really good use of my skills and talents while I've been at home, thanks - both for the good of my family and in voluntary roles outside of that. In fact there's probably more to be proud of on a human level than there was in my big fancy pants career I don't criticise wohm for their choices and I wish they would return the favour and have a bit of respect for me and my own choices.

I cannot begin to get my head round why anyone would see it as a source of pride and be smug about the fact that they have a high earning husband. Talk about living vicariously though another person! It's as bad as mothers who have aspirations for their children yet dont go out and grab these things for themselves...

Now I get this. I am amazed and thankful for all sorts of people. It is like admiring anyone who is successful (not just money wise) and encouraging other people's talents. The focus should be on being pleased not proud though.

Good for you, capsium, glad it's worked out for you. You obviously planned it well. I hope you're planning for the next phase of your life too, after your kids have left home - I think this is really important for a SAHP.

yes Janey, being proud of your husband leaves you open to criticism.
What the actual fuckety fuck?!

Well done to whoever it was that whilst being on maternity leave is very similar day to day (minus the maternity money) psychologically and practically it is very different.

That's the nub of it (smile)

Of course I have made sacrifice. If I went back full time I would drop my banding which would be a huge mistake.

If I was going to go back to full time I would have to retrain into another job.

Before I had DC I could have been a supervisor and had all the training for it, but realistically I have chucked my career down the drain going back part time.

Fourthly, babies don't need to socialise, and preschoolers benefit best from short sessions of group play (say a couple of hours a day - no more). The best role models for little children are people who are there, with them, demonstrating how to behave well, and whilst worklessness might be a problem, work in the home is just as valuable as paid work

Deliberately goading I think!

I say the MORE good role models DD has the better. DD sees good values exhibited from me, DH, Grandma, uncles, Godmother, Godfather, her key worker, other nursery staff, our parishioners, friends - the list in endless.

She's a very lucky girl!

Bark you just seem to come back each time to lose even more of the moral high ground. Delegating child care to someone who can only earn minimum wage? That is spectacularly rude and unpleasant on so many levels. Your last post has reinforced your position of arrogance and smugness.

Jinsie I think some of the planning must have been subconscious though! . I am thankful that I have always fallen on my feet, even after making humongous mistakes too!

I have been quite poor (as a student), and pretty well off and now am somewhere in between. I have faced hardship through redundancies and managing schooling in terms of the (somewhat adversarial) SEN system. Having hope is the main thing that has kept me going. This is the message I want to pass on to my DC.

Yabu & judgey & odd.

I can't tell from your posts if you think sahm-ing is harder than wohm-ing, you clearly think you're superior.

I think its a mixed bag being sahm. I'm on 2nd mat leave keeping ds in nursery 4 days a week until ds2 is slightly less new. I consider my role for the next year to be sahm. I also know I prefer being a wohm, but am nervous about challenges of working with 2 dc will be hard at first.

Janey68 I hope you are not referring to me as boasting about having a high earning husband? Just to be clear, I earned (marginally) more than my husband when I gave up work to stay at home with DC1, though over the past 5 years my husband's income has grown and surpassed by old max.

I think it is very rude that people assume that SAHMs are some how necessarily a financial burden on their poor husbands. Our family home was largely paid for before we had our children (and if we are going to be prissy about it ) mostly paid for by me.

I've always felt that SAHM feel pressure from society to validate what they do. Hence the whole 'well i'm raising my own child' bollocks.

I was a SAHM for 2 years. Then I decided I wanted a career. Do I feel bad for putting my child in childcare? No. She has flourished. Will I ever regret my decision to go back to work? No. Do I need to justify myself to people who have a differing opinion to me? No.

I really don't get the SAHM/WM contest. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Its BF vs. FF all over again.

Totally agree that work in the home is as valuable as work out of the home and I completely object to the description of SAHPs as 'parasites' - they are making a worthwhile contribution to the home that should absolutely be respected. I do not believe work is the be-all and end-all and although I have a professional job it does not define me and I consider my role as mother as being far more important to my identity.

That said, the OP's views on childcare are so offensive, ignorant and blinkered it is breathtaking. Now nursery workers are only there because they are too stupid to get a better job? How about those who see working with children as a vocation and do it despite the poor pay and conditions because they love it and see it as valuable? There are many excellent people working in childcare who set a great example to children and do a brilliant job with them. Good childcare can enhance a child's development alongside good parenting. It is crucial that we respect and value everyone doing the very important job of looking after children, whether they are that child's parents or a paid professional.

"Fourthly, babies don't need to socialise, and preschoolers benefit best from short sessions of group play (say a couple of hours a day - no more). The best role models for little children are people who are there, with them, demonstrating how to behave well, and whilst worklessness might be a problem, work in the home is just as valuable as paid work."

Quite the expert aren't you?

I've always felt that SAHM feel pressure from society to validate what they do. Hence the whole 'well i'm raising my own child' bollocks

Yeah, I see that. If only we could get to a position where nobody had to justify their choices, we might get to a point where people didn't feel the need to denigrate the choices made by other people.

Ultimately, we all work hard, we all do what's best for our families and we are all raising our own kids!

Bark, unless you are independently wealthy then you are very much dependant upon your DH. He earns the income not you and as you dont work he provides for your every need. If you were not there he would simply use childcare.

I agree with the poster who made the comment re wealthy husband being seen as a trophy. So many on here admit they chose their partner for his earning potential (recent thread) and it was saddening to see. Surely parents want more for their daugthers than then studying for x years only never to use it as its their ambition in life to find somebody else that will do all the work.

Working shows children you can do it all rather than send the message that boys need to work hard and earn and girls get to opt out of working.

I'm a SAHM and mumsnet is the only place that I feel embarrassed and like a sponger. I get really upset that I am somehow showing my kids that it's ok to sponge from your partner. Fuck sake, I read it every day how shit I am for staying at home.

I would never say how much better being a SAHM is to someone who worked out of/ in the hone because that would be shit and horrible.

Just found the thread.

When will people realise that there is more than one way to parent that results in happy well adjusted parents. The routes to this may be varied but not wrong or damaging in any way.

What's good for one is not for another and so on. It baffles me why people have these sweeping generalisations.

Re OP, FWIW I think enjoying (or maybe not) the first few months of a newborn, that snuggly bonding stage, where they are not moving or more importantly not talking (lets be real here) is NOT directly comparable to extended SAHP'ing of say two or more children, especially where there is a school run, homework, plays, etc to juggle.

I've done both WOHP and SAHP I've found both demanding but in different ways. The worst thing for me as a SAHP is getting back into the workforce, rebuilding a career.

Overall SAHP works for the children as we cannot rely on DH being here due to his job. He is a high earner, I am far from smug. High earners often work silly long hours and don't see their families much. I am constantly having to bridge the gap of him not being here via phone calls, emails to keep him up to date with kids and get support on days where I'm dorwing in homework stresses. Additional income never makes up for this.

But my kids seem happy and growing up nicely, despite having different childcare arrangements during the early years. That's the bottom line.