to think worship has no place in a school?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

By all means - talk about what people of faith believe in, use examples from their books as moral examples, use example of people with no faith etc. Lots of good opportunities for "doing the moral thing" and talking about right and wrong.

But keep "collective worship" out of it. If a child wants to pray, they can do it at their own time.

Yes - people can opt out. Children can sit there and contemplate. But it's difficult to opt out. Surely opting in rather than assuming that children want to pray to a God they really do not understand is better.

But it's compulsory - and in theory, OFSTED will look to see if your school is doing this:

" All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship."

(I seem to be on a bit of a vent at the moment [grin[)

I agree OP, I'm all for teaching religious education and philosophy - it's fascinating and informs a lot of our history and literature, as well as current events - but I don't think there should be 'worship' in schools. I also don't think there should be any faith schools, religion and education should be kept separate.

Laura the point is that it is compulsory for schools to provide these acts of worship. That is wrong. Worship belongs in the home and in church. If organised faiths can't maintain their congregations without assistance from the state in 'recruitment' then they are clearly not doing their job.

And why should children 'experience religion' at school? It's everywhere already - in the news, on billboards, in music and literature. It's perfectly possible for a child to turn to faith without being exposed to it at school.

Why should children be introduced to worship and praying? It isn't an essential part of life. If as parents you think it is, then the onus is on you to provide that.

I agree with you - worship should not be a part of learning. Religious education should but not worship - there are way more religious countries than us who understand this. But (much to some peoples surprise) we don;t actually have the separation of church and state in this country so thats the way it is for now. If you're interested in trying to change the status quo then look up Accord Coalition which is a multifaith group trying to campaign for changes to the way religion is handled in schools in the UK - including exclusion on religious grounds.

CHildren whose parents do not believe are denied the opportunity to decide for themselves ( a child cant go to church on their own)

If we are going down the lines of it being needed for children to decide their own faith do we not then need to encourage worship in all different faiths in order to give a balance in the decision? Is it right we tell them it is Christianity or nothing?

At school children should be EDUCATED about all religions, any practice of religion can take place in the home environment with the school supporting that if needed (providing somewhere for a child to pray if they so wish etc)

And you can have collective assemblies promoting being part of the group, togetherness, public spirit, etc etc without worshipping a god

I've opted my DC out of collective worship at their schools. They also don't do the school church services that are the joys of attending a CofE school.
Theybaren't the only ones in their schools who don't go in for assemblies or attend church.

I don't mind worship but I do mind veiled preaching.

17leftfeet - maybe the head just shouts "hallelujah!" at the end and the deputy head chips in "Amen" - job done.

I could actually see them doing that lol

It's quite unbelievable that ALL parents have to align themselves with a religion - any religion! - that they don't have the slightest belief in, in order to give their children an education.

Could not agree more.

At a young age, children are so impressionable, especially from the teachers they quite rightly respect and believe speak the truth.

Having somebody in that position telling a child that God exists or similar is a complete abuse of power (whether the teacher agrees with it or not - they're forced into it)

I'm agnostic, I don't mind if the DC later find religion or not, it's their lives. But what I dislike is that thanks to the school and religion, deep in my subconscious is always this fear that perhaps there is a God and he is cross with me for any screw-ups I make or whatever. That if I am bad I won't go to heaven or something. My rational mind thinks this is a load of bollocks, but it's still there, deeply buried, implanted at a young age. Thanks to this stupid bloody policy. It is SO not on. Let children have the right to choose when they're old enough.

Plus the fact it's Christian - if I were to be religious I'd probably lean toward something more paganish but making worship follow a particular religion completely biases children at a very low level. I really feel for the parents of children who follow non-Christian religions.

No place for non-secular schooling in this day and age and such a multicultural society.

(it goes without saying of course I fully support religious education, it is vital - that is something very different to worship!)

I'm a Christian and I agree. My dc get a great role model of Christianity at home/church.

School assemblies switch them off!

Faith schools confuse me...no other public services are allowed to discriminate. We don't have doctors surgeries/hospitals that only treat Christians/Jews/Muslims.

CHildren whose parents do not believe are denied the opportunity to decide for themselves ( a child cant go to church on their own).

Actually, the more I think about this ^^ statement, the more I can't quite believe the total irony inherent in it.

Let's let ALL people have the opportunity to decide for themselves, when they are adults.

Such a disgrace that children are discriminated against on the basis that their parents can use logic/reason.

YANBU- I was shocked when DD came home from her supposedly non denominational primary singing songs about God that she had learned in assembly. It has no place in schools, except faith schools. I like the idea of RE being changed to something like Philosophy and Faiths- especially if it included atheism and humamism.

I am a Christian, my children have had the chance to go to church with me but they still have the chance to make their own mind up as I don't force them to come and have clearly told them it's their choice what they believe, but they have the experience now so can make a balanced choice. Daily worship at the kids c of e school is very unreligious as there are a lot of non c of e children there, but they must somehow tick the boxes and they do have one God assembly a week.

They also do philosophy which must tick the boxes as well.

doesn't bother me in the slightest. I went to a private CofE school (I'm not CofE) and in the senior school we had morning assembly in the chapel. I always used to meet my best friend (who was in a different house and year) under the Venerable Bede window. A hymn and a reading, then just general assembly stuff. I enjoyed it, a gentle, traditional start to the day. I quite often listen to the daily service on radio 4 LW too.

We are not a secular country - I never understand why people are surprised to find that out. We have a state religion.

Oh, and certainly CofE schools have to provide places for non-CofE children - our local school is usually under half are church places, the rest open. Even though it's not the 'best' school round here people do like it.

YANBU OP, however, the OFSTED guidence talks about the daily act of worship being broadly Christian. I would interprete this as following broadly Christian themes such as loving one another, being kind etc......these are common to all religions and don't have to include mentioning any God. They do in DS's school...but it is Catholic so to be expected but they have just as many assemblies which don't mention God and focus more on the importance of being kind to others etc.....and you don't need a God for that.

I totally agree. We have no choice but to send our children to a C of E school, there is no other school within a 5 mile radius and it is the only school in a small town. I don't see the connection with religion and education as relevant these days. I've often wondered how it works with atheist head teachers and daily worship?

I don't really mind.

DC's schools are all C of E and though we are not C of E, or indeed even Christians, I do think that culturally it is an important part of the UK and wouldn't want to see it lost.

Even if we don't personally believe, I want my DC to understand our cultural heritage and the beliefs behind it. I like the idea that it's still celebrated.

I suppose it depends... if you take the view that it's a convention designed to get people to adhere to certain laws and disciplines then I can't think of a more suitable and highly necessary place quite honestly.

No problem talking about religion. There's lots of good stories out there with a moral bit to them (and we can ignore some of the other messages in the Bible).

But yes - teachers have influence and it is hard for a young child not to believe and trust their teacher.

I know teachers who "do God" in the classroom. I've heard some stories about things they've said. It's not "Christians believe", it's scaring them with what God thinks.

That's wrong. I do not believe in God but I am perfectly capable of teaching about what people of faith believe - though I struggle with the real meaning of Easter and sin.

I do not indoctrinate pupils saying God does not exist. I do not expect them to say things that are athiest beliefs. They are free to make their own choice without compulsion.

We have a state religion. WTF does that actually mean? A State religion? The USA is one of the most religious countries there is but they can separate church and state.

Will it do harm to get rid of collective worship ?