to think worship has no place in a school?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

By all means - talk about what people of faith believe in, use examples from their books as moral examples, use example of people with no faith etc. Lots of good opportunities for "doing the moral thing" and talking about right and wrong.

But keep "collective worship" out of it. If a child wants to pray, they can do it at their own time.

Yes - people can opt out. Children can sit there and contemplate. But it's difficult to opt out. Surely opting in rather than assuming that children want to pray to a God they really do not understand is better.

But it's compulsory - and in theory, OFSTED will look to see if your school is doing this:

" All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship."

(I seem to be on a bit of a vent at the moment [grin[)

If anything - collective worship turns people off religion.
Religion should be something you come too.

I think there are a few stages of thought between not wanting the law to impose the act of worship within our tax-funded education system and tearing down the Sistene Chapel or banning Holman Hunt's Light of the World, and burying religious leaders up to theier waists and stoning them a la Taleban.

There should be a new internet form rule about the invocation of the Taleban - like the Nazi one.

HollyMiamiFLA I signed your petition and shared it on FB - I hope it gets read.

collective worship turns people off religion

So what is the problem then?

YANBU

In many schools, 'worship' is mainly paid lip-service, and assemblies are really about being nice to each other etc, with no pressure on children to pray or believe what they are being told.

However, the big danger with the current law on collective worship is that it gives free rein to individual head teachers to interpret in their own way, and some of them use it to promote their own evangelical agendas by inviting in outside groups to conduct assemblies. The evangelical wings of some churches see primary schools as perfect recruiting-grounds, and the law gives them the green light to do that, even in non-church affiliated state-funded schools. See this rather worrying piece from a parent in Sheffield: Evangelism in schools - a parent's perspective.

The secular society has also produced a report on evangelism in state schools. I really do not see how anyone can think it is OK for young children to be directly targeted for missionary activity in non-affiliated state schools.

I think the requirement for worship in schools is outdated and should be abolished, although I am all in favour of good religious education which will make all children familiar with the bible and other aspects of the Christian tradition which are entwined with British cultural history (as well as learning about other major religions, of course).

Religious indoctrination is WRONG! Children who are told that god created things when science REALISTICALLY shows this to be false IS putting them at a disadvantage! Surely you want children taught properly so they can get on in life?

This isn't bible belt of America ToughSpuds
Nobody is banning Darwin from the curriculum and replacing it with creationism.

Teaching god as fact is damaging. I know this isn't the bible belt of America. My 3yo DD was "taught" about hell as if it was a real thing and I find that to be on the verge of abuse. It should not be allowed to happen.

Holly Miami - I don't have a problem with evolution or DNA - if someone wants to make up a nice song and tune, good luck to them. An ode to Dawkins might be stretching the point....

I don't for one minute think that children will be indoctrinated by school assembly.

Just that it is wrong for the state to decree that in a tax-funded education system there should, by law, be religious worship.

It's a matter of principle. And anachronistic.

Neither do I think that there should be a law against it. While ever we have state funded faith schools of course they should have the freedom to use part of the day for worship if they choose. It would be a mis use of state power to bar worship in faith schools.

sam

I could easily adapt All things bright and beautiful

DNA made them all

Rather than complaining about faith schools why don't humanists set up their own free schools?

Lots of community schools go to church. The religous tone of a community school seems to be set by the head teacher. DD's community school seems be converting to catholism with the new head teacher.

I think its important that all beliefs are valued in school.

If I were Minister of Education I would ban all faith schools.
I would include religious teaching in the curriculum and would particularly include Christianity because so much of our law and history is based on it and it would aid children's understanding of our present society.

Totally agree! Religion is a form of control IMO.

We have no choice, every school for miles is a church school. We have to explain that it is only what some people believe and not neccesserily true.

Start a petition I will sign it, let's get this out of our school system.

My main problem with faith schools is the predominance given to one particular faith. Of course religious education is a must for the sake of tolerance but not having a particular faith.

Teaching god as fact is damaging

I am not "damaged" and I was taught about god etc.

Why do people stop assume that any hint of religion in a child's life will cause him/her irreparable damage - and that they won't have the ability to make up their own mind about spiritual and moral matters?
Why do people think that school has a more profound influence over a child than a parent does?

It is all very easy to talk about banning faith aligned schools but without the 5,000 odd schools run by the CofE this country would be even more buggered than it already is regarding provision.

I can just see the rewriting of All things Bright and Beautiful in an atheist style

All things bright and beautiful
All creatures short and squat
All things vile and ugly
Evolution made the lot!

Each little flower that opens
Each little brat who sings
Each stripey little insect
It gave them rear-end stings!

"If I were Minister of Education I would ban all faith schools."

You would have been elected first! Laws that insist that schools have a christian act of worship were passed by democratically elected set of MPs. There are no "non faith" state schools in the UK. We would need an act of parliment to get rid of religion in state schools.

I feel that the parents of a particular community school should have a say in the religious ethos of a school. At the moment a new head teacher can impose any religious view she likes on a community school unilaterally.

Schools should make it clear from the outset how religious they are.

"We would need an act of parliment to get rid of religion in state schools."

Maybe we should have such an Act.

^^ really do you think the C of E pay for those schools? Have they maintained them, do they pay the teachers salaries?

No didn't think so. They chuck a bit in the pot every so often for an extension usually.
Council tax pays for schools. Yes they own the land, a compulsory purchase order should be made on every church school building. just like it would be made for a motorway.

harticus

Why shouldn't schools teach about Shiva? Ganesh? Allah? Odin?

Why should schools expect pupils to pray to a Christian God?

It won't do them any harm to pray to any deity, will it?