to beg women with lazy sexist arsehole DHs not to have more DCs with them

[BeeInYourBonnet]

Apologies as I'm sure this must have been done before, but some of the threads recently have been SO depressing. I've been on MN 8 years, and it never ceases to amaze me what total fucking arseholes some women are married to. These manchilds are pathetic.

I want to cry when I read that some poor woman is pg with no 3, 4 or 5, and admits that her DH has never helped with a single night wake-up, has hardly changed a nappy, provides no support emotionally or practically, is financially abusive, the list goes on....

I know its more complicated than this, but I just want to scream 'stop having DCs with these complete bastards' 'stop showing them that's its OK to check out of family life'

The thing is he really isn't horrible all the time. And I'm not making excuses for him here but it's like he has a nasty side which has reared its head a few times (maybe provoked by me on the worst occasion as I had had a drink and was nit picking at him) but I think he knows that if I'm pregnant or have a small baby I won't go. I nearly left wen our youngest was small but even my mum said think it through as it'll be hard with two little ones. I don't actually want sex with him and I think he knows it and it's not even just tiredness. When we eventually do it sometimes I enjoy it but not always and now I've had to face the fact that no way could I have another child with him it makes doing it seem even more wrong iyswim. Most of the time he is decent but there have just been incidents which I can't forgive him for and also I want to the right thing by my two children I have and be able to do things with them and give them my best instead of being floored by another pregnancy with zero support

But that's just it, all the awful, abusive men you read about on MN are NOT awful all the time. It is almost always just odd 'incidents', which is why women struggle to make the decision to leave.

I think this should be made more widely known, as I have personally experienced and read on her so, so many times that a man is 'usually lovely', that these incidents only happen occasionally, that they are otherwise great dads, etc. People imagine that 'properly' abusive men are like that 24/7, so manage to convince themselves to stay. But no abuser is like that all the time, otherwise no one would ever put up with them and the decision would be very clear cut to get rid.

God knows I wish I had realised this, I am yet another woman who had another child with a man who was verbally, financially, sexually and very occasionally mildly physically abusive and controlling. He did nothing to help me after I had DS1 and screamed at me for not doing enough in his eyes. In my case it was unplanned and I found out too late to terminate (which I would undoubtedly have done). I was desperate for another child and utterly adore my 2nd child now they are here, and finally split with ex very soon afterwards. His abuse started out just being when he drank, so I rationalised it wasn't the 'real him'.

I wish you all the best for a happy, safe future, piklpants. It IS hard being a single parent, but surely life is harder for you now?

For the most part, I think it is a slow burn before getting to 'having more DC with an arsehole'

When you first date, you are living separately, getting on with (and maybe enjoying) work, career, friends, social life. You start by spending your leisure time together without any of the 'daily grind' interfering. Then you spend more time together and look to the future, holidays, maybe moving in together, marriage on the horizon - still the focus is off of the daily grind. You are both still independent and likely have your own income and independent social life.

As you move on and perhaps move in together you might pool some finances and have niggles about each others living habits - but that's natural, right? You might whinge a bit but you still have plenty of time to deal with it, can go out for meals on a whim etc

Then you decide to get married and have children - very exciting again.

Once you get pregnant it changes. You are more inextricably linked. Women very often lose their 'independence' and social support during ML, moving away to follow DH's career, other friends caught up in their whirlwind of juggling homes, children etc. You have your family 'unit' which society holds up to be all you need and many women lose their sense of self.

At this point (pregnant or newborn) women are at the highest risk of DV . Men who were the centre of a woman's attention are not now (and probably quite rightly for a period after the child is born). And rather than helping and supporting DW through it they retreat and say 'well I'm earning so it's your job to deal with it'. As another poster said, the women step up to the challenge and get on with it. The downward spiral continues. There is no time to maintain the full independent social life/support and people become more insular within their 'unit'

I know this isn't the case for all relationships but I think in many cases it is a such a slow almost imperceptible decline from 2 independent adults to an abusive mid/post DC situation. When the women emerge from the 'parenting fog' they can step back from it and say WTF???? But in many cases it is too hard, so they accept it and it continues

^massive generalisations there I know!

Bingo, not at all, I think all that you have said is very relevant!

The patterns or pathways that you describe are very easy to fall into

pikle I think you've made the right decision, well done on seeing things so clearly

I hope you are able to leave him someday. I know it must be hard now but as you say it may be easier when the kids are a bit older.

and well stated bingo

I think the enormous and irrational disparity between maternity leave and paternity leave in the UK has a lot to answer for, actually.

what a great thread

only read up to about the first 200 replies as got to nip out

but I want to ask - WHY do people think that so many men are so goddamm shit?? I am really sorry if that sounds man-hating. but in my experience its bloody true :(

I would say 90% of my friends have shit partners or husbands, ie they don't do their fair share, many of my friends don't go anywhere without their dcs as their dps / dhs are too shit to look after their own dcs, and in any case they think its womans work

even my own dad. I love my dad but when I was growing up he was a pretty shit dad and husband. and a very bad example to both me and my db. my mum worked full time, they both did, but he never ever lifted a finger in the house and my mum did everything for us

In fairness, not all men are shit. My dad was great, so was my FIL (both sadly dead now & very much missed), so perhaps it is not coincidence that my DH is great, so is my sister's DH - thinking about it, my 2 closest friends' DHs are wonderful too. I know some lovely men, it is not all doom & gloom.

And most of all, a fucking spa weekend is NOT adequate compensation for being married to a totally lazy , disengaged man who can't be bothered to take part in family life

Well said Jellyandcakes, all I think when I see that is oh she is probably married to a useless fecker too.

I don't think there is much Mumsnet can do to set a good example that isn't already done by women talking here about their own experiences. The reality is we end up being so influenced by cultural factors even down to how we were raised, that it often does not go in.

Beb, because they can, society is still patriarchal even if individual women strive for egalitarian households the wider cultural message is still that domestic and childcare work is womens work

piklepants - don't leave. Investigate how you can get him to leave.

'ok most of the time' - you are worth more than that.

and absolutely no more kids with this man. You need to get the ones you have away from him or in 15 years, they will be doing the same.

yes, I know it isn't that easy. But please get started.