To ask DP for financial support on mat leave?

[BraveLilBear]

I'm going back to work in a few weeks when DS is 7 months old. After a decent maternity package, I'm now on SMP only and frankly struggling.

DP earns a little more than I do. He has no debts and pays 200 a month in maintenance for his other son.

I have spent the last few years living on the absolute minimum in order to reduce my debts. In the last month before DS was born I paid off two loans to reduce my outgoings by 250 a month.

We each pay a similar amount into the joint account every month (tho I have always paid around 20 more).

For the first 4 months of mat leave, I paid in 100 extra a month to save up for this time and we have a significant amount in the joint account.

However, DP still expected me to pay in. I paid in half, which leaves me with 250 to cover my personal outgoings. Unless I use my overdraft (trying not to as took ages to clear before) I therefore have NOTHING left over.

We both use a budgeting system whereby we work out how much disposable income we have and divide it by number of weeks. By this system, he regularly has 100 left over at the end of the week that goes into his (personal) savings and is able to spend whatever he wants on himself - clothes, PS4, etc

Am I being unreasonable to think this is ridiculous? During a row yesterday I asked him for 100 so I could get a months' worth of shopping and he yelled why should he have to pay for everything.

I know I have left this late but how can I reasonably appeal to him for assistance?

Bloody hell. What a prize twat. Hope the chat is going well OP

Fitzgerald - that does not sound like a great situation to be honest.

Women who don't know what their DH/DP earns and don't know his assets and have a major struggle in getting fair settlement once a relationship breaks down. Make it your business to know.

This bit really worries me: " I think a lot of his friends have been caught financially post marriage and he is wary."

On the other hand you have debts he doesn't know about and but he is well off. You are hiding your financial situation from him too.

I just don't get how people can live together and yet know so little about each other's financial situation.

This is really sad Brave. DH bought me some vitamins the other day and I thought it was kind, but only because he'd thought about me and gone looking in the relevant aisle in Sainsburys. I assume he paid out of the joint account that covers all household stuff.

We pay into the JA every month, same amounts (but we tend to earn about the same). It pays for all household things, joint entertainment and holidays. Personal accounts pay for opticians, mobiles, clothes, stuff and separate entertainment. If I go on maternity leave, plan is that we'd pay more into JA in readiness and then it would fund more when I was off.

He ought to be paying you for half the childcare you're doing. I don't think even an entirely joint spending approach will cure him. He's not seeing you as a family. If he's from a traditional background, shouldn't that mean you stay home and he provides?

I know the thread has moved on a bit since you made the post I'm quoting from, but I couldn't let it pass -

"He has no good male role models and is from a very traditionally working class background - not invoking a class war here but his family were very much dad earned the most (altho the women always worked)."
His attitude to money is nothing to do with being working class. I am working class, as were my parents and grandparents. Yes, the men earned most. But they brought home their unopened paypackets and handed them to my mother/grandmothers. These women were in charge of the household finances. This way of dealing with money was as common in working class households as the handing-over-a-pittance-for-housekeeping-and-drinking-the-rest model that your partner aspires to.

"He's notoriously selfish and I have considered leaving. Thing is, I'm stubborn as fuck and know that he could be better."
Two points here -

1. Don't be stubborn. Aspire to being sensible, being wise, being clear-sighted. Not stubborn. Stubborn loses sight of what's important to easily and is prone to wearing blinkers.
2. He could be better? Oh dear. That is a little bit too close to 'I know I can change him'. No, you can't. He's an adult, his personality is formed.

I agree with others that your mother explicitly saying she would be supportive of you leaving, pretty much means she is biting her tongue to stop her self from begging you to leave him.

He will not change. This is as good as he will ever be. You (and DS) deservbe better. Far better.

I agree that the working class thing is a diversion

I am from a working class background and none of this would be acceptable outside of a financially abusive relationship

My dh is also from a poorer end of the working class and in his family the men all hand over their entire salary to their wives and let them sort it out and spend as necessary. It's not a working class thing at all.

If you are having a baby with a man and you don't even know how much he earns, you clearly don't know him very well.

Of course you'll probably only realize this when he's move onto his next doormat.

Hmm food for thought. Hope all going well for you OP.

Thanks morebeta well, I have a ballpark and I could work it out. I know very intimate details about his circs (income tax due, savings, family finances etc). Just not exact income, he doesn't know himself tbf. He is always telling me to take more, I just can't let myself. Which is a bit nuts. Been Mrs Independent for too long.

But point taken. We certainly wouldn't argue over the issue and I wouldn't feel I couldn't discuss it if the need arose.

We do however need to prioritize wills, life insurance etc. We are both phenomenally busy and really cherish our time together and should be more pragmatic during that (limited) time.

Read through this earlier OP and felt very sad and cross on your behalf.

I also think I posted on a thread of yours just before your baby was born (I've nc'ed since then) - was it you who was worried about the name your dp wanted for your baby if he was a boy? What happened with that in the end - did you stand your ground, or did your dp get his way? I sincerely hope the former.

The indications on your other thread were that your dp was an arsehole, and sad to say that does very much appear to be the case. He came across then as very selfish, manipulative, controlling and frankly abusive, and still does - I hope you can come clean to your parents about him and let them help you get away. Best of luck.

How people are more than happy to share bodily fluids yet are cagey about income is one of the most astounding things I have learned from mumsnet.

I had no idea that so many women were 'given' a set amount for housekeeping whilst they either sah or were on mat leave. Worse still that some were still expected to make a 50% contribution to the pot in those circumstances. I would have been sure that such a scenario was bizarre and rare these days yet time and time again I see such arrangements being discussed on here tentatively by women worried they are being unreasonable.

Don't want to be judge-y, but......what the actual fXXX?

It's not nice for you to hear but he is a pig. I can't understand how you have let it get this far. This should have been ironed out before the conception, seriously, when you are thinking you'll start a family together you need to know that this pigging bastard of a man is not going to begrudge you a fecking hundred quid to buy food. Oh my goodness I have no idea who he is and I want to punch him. What a low life and yes I agree with whoever said no wonder his last relationship failed..... PS4 are we on another planet?!

I so do not want to sound high and mighty, this is not helping you on a practical level. This is all going to come down to how you enforce change. He is, as that woman on (awful) CBB's mum said "muggin' you off darling" You need to lay down the law, you are his partner, mother of his child, he should be crawling over hot coals to give you what you deserve, you gave birth and have poured everything you have into your baby. He needs to grow up. Pronto.

Sorry for being mean OP but feel that this is really unfair on you

My parents live like this. It's so odd. Whenever i see them they are bickering about who spent £4 on the bread and papers. So tedious. Married 42 years and still arguing over who paid what.

My exH was like this too (in fact lots of men from that generation - 30s - who i have spoken to feel exactly the same way). He was insistent that everything be 'fair'. By fair he meant equal. So we would both pay 50/50. But he earned £38k and i earned £15k. He would have hundreds left over every month and i would be getting into debt putting groceries on my credit card. He would watch me cry. Sympathise. Suggest second jobs and other ideas to increase my wage. Then buy a £450 camera.

When i moved in with DH he had exactly the same idea. 50/50. Totally fair. Apparently that's how he'd worked it out with all his other 'flatmates' . I loudly gently pointed out the difference between our relationship and that of a house share. We found it easier to put it all in one pot and pay everything out of that and just decide together what to do with the rest (holidays, gong out, savings etc).

I remember 30-odd years ago working with someone who earned 75% of her DH's salary.

So they worked everything out in that ratio. Whatever was left was their own. Don't know what they did when they had children.

Mine and DH's salaries started off similar (me slightly more) but that changed after children to me, nothing. Later on I did earn again but he stayed ahead. Now I'm back to hardly any of my own till the pension appears and everything is still joint. I'd check if I wanted something 'big', or if I'm not entirely sure what the money in the account is earmarked for but I never need to ask 'permission'.

I don't understand. If you're close enough to share children, you're close enough to share money.

You're providing free childcare for him, so enabling his career, and he is expecting you to SUBSIDISE him on top? Bloody hell. I barely know what to say here.

In fairness, he does sometimes realise and so for example offered to buy me some vitamins last week as he knows I can't afford them.

Wow. Um, just - wow.

Can you seriously not see how utterly twisted that is? In fairness? You've birthed a child, and you are grateful to the father because he's prepared to pay for post-partum vitamins because he knows you are so, so poor you can't afford them - while living as a family, while he fritters money on things just because?

Your parents dislike this objectionable creature for a reason. I'm afraid I think you should listen. This is financial abuse, plain and simple. You do realise that if you left him, you'd get in-work benefits to top up your income PLUS CSA mandated child support which is not factored into benefit calculations? He's a liability in just about every way, frankly.

For the record: when I have a baby, and don't earn as a result, I get an amount paid into my personal account by DH. If I need more, I tell him so and he pays me more. Never asks why - just bungs it in to make sure I don't get overdrawn and cost us - us! - money in overdraft fees. I pay all household expenses on a credit card he pays off in full every month, without question, as being at home I have time to manage food supplies etc... and he is appreciative of the work involved, I may add, because he knows no shopping fairy fills the fridge, any more than the laundry or dishwasher fairies manage housework or the nappy fairies change the baby. The only time he ever questioned an expense was when I bought a laptop online from John Lewis, and paid by Paypal, so he saw a huge Paypal charge and wanted to be sure it was legit. That's literally the only time he ever asked. I know how much he earns, and it isn't loads by many standards, but it is OUR money because we're a family, just as money I have earned and will earn is. Just as my work caring for the babies and home is work towards the family - unpaid labour is still work!

He is exploiting you so badly I can hardly bear to read it. Please don't think his treatment of you is remotely normal - it's anything but.

In fairness, he does sometimes realise and so for example offered to buy me some vitamins last week as he knows I can't afford them.

That has made me so sad.

So... we had an interesting 'chat' - I'll be avoiding the neighbours for a few days and fully expect DS to have his first ear infection.

Several hours later, he has agreed I should take the money I put into the joint account yesterday back out.

I also suggested a new system going forward that should leave us with similar disposable income - both put c. 60% of take home in JA, leaving us both with enough to cover personal outgoings and spends. He is ok with the principle but needs to work out the reality.

I asked him if he thought it was fair that he has hundreds spare every month and I have nowt and that didn't go well. His response being 'why can't I do what I want with what I earn' etc and 'I buy everything (new tv, 60/40 on furniture) and if it was down to you, we'd never have anything nice'. He has a point here as before DS was born I spent 18 months clearing off debts and therefore had exceptionally little leftover for clothes let alone anything else - if I had enough money to spend on a tv, I would have put it towards an important baby expense or decorating rather than a tv.

He is considering why it might be unfair to be so skint when in actual fact our personal outgoings are pretty much the same. Only mat leave is affecting that now.

Overall our relationship is on very thin ice.

Re name: we eventually came up with something we both agreed on - but he reneged on DS having my dad's name as middle name and insisted on there being two middle names including his dad's.

Please read what you just wrote and leave this awful man.
He does not have a point 'there' lovey.

At the very least I think you and your ds should go to your parents for a bit of headspace away from all this crap.

His response being 'why can't I do what I want with what I earn' etc

Telling, that what he wants are treats for himself, rather than for his family to have what they need. He basically doesn't see you as a family. He sees you as separate individuals who share accommodation, without responsibility for one another.

Interesting that the baby has to have his father's name, but he sees himself as under no obligation to pay for his son's care and nurture while he himself is at work. He is expecting to pay for childcare when you go back to work - so why is he unwilling to do so while that care is provided by you? It's his child too.

I'm not really clear on what exactly you are getting from being with him. Other than put-downs, debt and stress.

This is sad. I haven't read all the way through, but what I have read is sad. I am a SAHM, when I worked I was on very good money, bonuses etc. ALL of my wages went into a joint acc with DP. He was on comparable money and did the same. Everything came out if that acc and any left over was put into joint savings/investments/overpaying mortgage/ISAs in both our names etc. anything that we wanted to buy as individuals also came from that acct. I got made redundant and every scrap of my redundancy package went into our joint pot. Now that I don't work, I use the same joint acct for everything - weekly shop, DCs clothes and expenses, holidays as well as anything I want to buy and Christmas/birthday presents for DP. He has never questioned anything that I spend. Ever. This is because we are both sensible, rational people who love and trust each other. We intend to stay together and neither of us has ever been of the mindset of 'oh, how am I going to extricate myself financially if it all goes wrong'. We make equal contributions to the relationship and to our family, it just happens that his is financial and mine is not. I think you should re evaluate your relationship. I'm pretty sure you deserve better than he's treating you.

It's like you sold him the right to change your son's (previously agreed) name. It all sounds very mucky.

I hope you find a way that you are content with, OP.

why can't I do what I want with what I earn

Because you are not 15 with a paper round. You are a father x 2. If you wanted to keep your money you should not have got 2 women pregnant.

Your children need to be fed, clothed and housed. How is that not your responsibility?

Your partner also needs to be fed clothed and housed, incidentally she is currently providing you with free childcare.

Have a joint account for household purchases but make sure it covers everything FOR THE FAMILY, ie groceries, mortgage, car (her car that you seem to have exclusive use of) children, TV, furnishings etc. Once everything comes out of that then you can have some spare.

This is why paternity leave should be compulsory and be at least 6 months.