To think that 3 teachers shouldn't have done this to my son?

[Marn1e]

My DS is 7 and in year 2. He's been swimming with the school every week for the past two terms and enjoys it a lot.

Last week he had a flare up of his eczema. For background, he's suffered since he was 3 months old and has been involved in clinical trials/ all sorts of treatments etc. I now generally just keep him moisturised etc and only use his 10% steroid cream when need be. Last week he was covered so I immediately used his cream and gave him anti histamine etc.

It coincided with swimming so I popped into the office on the relevant morning and told them he'd had a flare up of eczema and I was going to keep him off swimming for two weeks ( necessary because the steroid immediately gets to work but further applications are needed even when the patches are gone to continue "dampening' it all down.

Today was the second week so I didn't send him in with his kit. He's still covered but on the mend so he will be back to it next week.

He came out of school today and told me that a teaching assistant had approached him and asked him why he wasn't swimming. He told her he had eczema. She then called over another teacher and a helper and between them they asked him to pull up his trousers so they could see his legs and then asked him to pull up his tops so they could look at his chest, tummy and back. He did this but was obviously a bit bothered as it was the first thing he said to me when he came out of school.

I called the school and the relevant teachers had gone home, although the teacher I spoke to said there would have been a very good reason why they did this and he " probably said his skin was hurting so they had a look".

He didn't say this. He has never once complained about it and he's never had time off school for it. Besides, he told me he was approached by a TA who specifically asked to look at it.

I've asked the school to come back to me with an explanation. They obviously don't believe me ( err not sure why?!?! ) but instead of calling me they chose for three of them to get him to pull up his clothes.

So is this a big deal? Wwyd?

I agree Goldrama, there should be a written record, and a follow up.
I still think they were just checking for eczema though.

Missing swimming for a second week is not grounds for suspecting abuse, without other indicators. And this is not the right way to go about checking for it.

If they thought he was trying to dodge swimming (due to bad communication of the situation) they could have asked about it at pick-up time.

I still think they were just checking for eczema though.

I completely agree.

Do you have any idea how often a 7 year old will say something that's not quite the whole truth in order to get the outcome they'd like?

He just told his mum about something he found uncomfortable. Seven year olds do not commonly make up situations like that out of nothing at all.

He wasn't trying to deflect blame for something. He had no outcome to change.

Lying/pretending/wishful thinking is part of growing up for most children.

There is usually a fairly obvious motive. In this situation there is no motive for him to make it up. He wouldn't have the insight at that age to know it wasn't acceptable behaviour on the part of the staff.

OP I know you dont want the consideration it was to check the reason given was in fact the reason but you need to be aware that it likely is iyswim?

Child has severe excema that doesnt prevent him from swimming for 2 years and then has a flare up that prevents him from swimming for 2 weeks - the fact you said 2 weeks from the offset can be a red flag.

Schools are under so much pressure re safeguarding. However - and this is the important bit - if they had child protection concerns they should have followed a preoper proceedure.

My frist thought was immediatly it's inappropriate - as a parent. As an educator my immediate thought was safeguarding (but badly handled). And believe me, it will be checked even if you have absolutely no concerns about the child because if you miss something then you can be held very accountable.

We live in a sad world atm where professionsals are actually afraid to trust parents and their instincts.

From a legal point of view, YANBU as they did not have consent to examine him - only you or any other person with parental responsibility for your DS can give this. As a GP I always have to ask for verbal consent for any examination. And they are not qualified to do this either. I know most people can spot eczema a mile off, but they are not in the position to do this. I'd be annoyed too, and telling them that if they are disputing his condition/management etc, the school may request a private medical report from your DS's Dr. They will need your written consent and they would also need to pay for this.

Marn1e, given the head's responses on the telephone, if you wish to pursue this further, I would suggest going in to see her. I think a face to face meeting might make it easier for you to establish the facts, decide whether what you're being told is credible, and reach a suitable resolution.

We live in a sad world atm where professionsals are actually afraid to trust parents and their instincts.

Its a sad world where some parents abuse and murder their children.

tobias - that is spot on and sums it up.

thanks for all the input. I fully support teachers checking for abuse. this honestly isn't about that though: they know he isn't an abused child, they have no suspicions.

I know that children talk nonsense and believe me, my youngest is capable of saying some hilariously outrageous things: but like all parents I know when he is telling me the truth; he came out of school and told me what had Happened. they asked him - he did not say he was in pain;

thanks again for all views. I'm undecided about following it up?

apologies for typos - phone is terrible for typing on!

"This thread makes me despair ...assuming it was a case of suspected abuse (and I'm not sure that is the case) Honestly I couldn't give a damn if three teachers (actually it would be one with witnesses) took her to one side and checked to see if my child (a few weeks off being 7) had bruises ...just checking her chest and legs ..."

I despair at people like Unlucky83. I've already said upthread why a teacher should not be checking. It can discredit evidence and it can escalate abuse to the child with fatal consequences. This is why lay people shouldn't be making suggestions about safeguarding.

So if a teacher thinks it's a bit strange that a child has 2 weeks off swimming, so not uncovering their body and wants to reassure themselves there's nothing untoward.... They should ring social services, extremely busy people, to come and ask him to lift up his top when they can make it? As opposed to having a peek themselves, with witnesses and being able to call them with valid concerns, backed by injuries? I don't get the people that have an issue with this! Nothing dodgy was happening. Even if it's because they didn't believe OP, does it really warrant this kind of attention?

candy

if we have another "schools/teachers should do more top protect abused children" thread could you come back on and post the legal stuff?

Another voice in the wilderness might help.

It's rare for me to say this but I would absolutely take this further. I think it's completely inappropriate, and how many times on one thread have trained professionals said it was not safeguarding as the staff were doing the opposite of safeguarding.

You CANNOT make your own rules with safeguarding, you really cannot.

OP, this is not about your incident, I'm sidetracking here.

SS and CP need to be far more proactive and involved in attempting to end abuse, and they should always have the interests of the child at heart rather than the adults.
So yes, if a teacher suspects abuse for whatever reason, they should inform the CPO in the school who should be able to get others involved within hours. Sadly, until the funding is available and the rights of a parent to block investigations are curtailed, that won't happen. Children will continue to be battered, burned, abused and starved by those who should be their protectors.

Teachers are not skilled or knowledgeable enough. I thought one child had ringworm, and reported. Turned out that infected cigarette burns leave similar marks. I was 23 and hadn't a clue. Gods know what else that 6 year old had hidden under his clothing, the burns were on his upper arm.

So if a teacher thinks it's a bit strange that a child has 2 weeks off swimming, so not uncovering their body and wants to reassure themselves there's nothing untoward.... They should ring social services, extremely busy people, to come and ask him to lift up his top when they can make it?

No. They should follow their own, very specific policies, which lay out exactly who they should speak to next.

The situation would then be investigated in an appropriate manner by people trained in how to go about it. It is nowhere as simple as them just popping in and having a look under the child's top.

The people who carry out these investigations may be very busy but that doesn't change the fact that we owe it to all these children to manage their care and protection very, very carefully.

I should just add that 2 weeks off swimming would be unlikely to trigger an investigation if there were no other causes for concern but the teacher would be given advice about that from their child protection officer within the school.

I completely agree Goldmandra but we need the equivalent of 101 and 999 to summon help. Not the woolly, disconnected postcode lottery that currently exists.

Not the woolly, disconnected postcode lottery that currently exists.

Absolutely, although I fully expect it to get worse, not better, considering the cuts currently being made in LAs.

If the school office had told the teachers then none of this would have happened!

If the OP had bothered to get documentation about why her son was not going to participate in an activity then none of this may have happened. Schools have hundreds of pupils. Staff talk to many parents on a daily basis about everything from lost hats to serious child welfare concerns to mediating arguments between divorced parents. "Popping in" to the office is not an effective way of notifying the school about anything. Put it in writing.

Tell his teacher at the beginning of the year as well.

fifi Have I got the wrong person or are you not a student social worker? An investigating SWer is not allowed to examine a child if they suspect abuse.

I'm looking at it from another perspective - the teachers.
It could be that they were concerned about his flar-up and wanted to see if they thought to get in contact with you to bring in creams etc. This has happened with one of my Y2s - although not swimming and she was asked to show her flare-up in a gentle way (with the 'oos' and the 'aaahs).
It is disappointing that they made your son to feel embarrassed by it. Was it done in front of an audience? And certainly doesn't take 3 people to do it. Also, the fact you said two weeks shouldn't have actually bothered the school that much - swimming is NOT on the KS1 curriculum; it is on the KS2 curriculum so therefore not missing anything 'statutory'.
You are right to ask for an explanation of what happened. Reiterate that your son's health comes before his education.
But for the record, my 2 year old suffers from eczema. He usually flares up iin February (waiting with baited breath). We go abroad in the summer holidays and a combination of sun and the swimming pool 'cures' his eczema. He has been eczema free for 5 months.
There was a study done a few years ago when a group of children were treated with chlorine water and they also had a placebo group. The effects on the chlorine children was remarkable; so much so that htey stopped the trial and gave the placebo group children an opportunity to be 'treated' with it.
A lot of people think chlorine is 'bad' but actually it can do a lot of good in health circles.

Boney I would but I think it would be like banging my head against a brick wall and I like my brain cells intact.

It could be that they were concerned about his flare-up and wanted to see if they thought to get in contact with you to bring in creams etc.

Seriously?

The child tells the teacher that his mum has told him he's not doing swimming because of his flare-up and the teacher decides to examine it in order to decide whether the mother should be told to provide creams for application in school?

How would the teacher make that judgement, not knowing what has been prescribed, what had already been applied or even what eczema was on other areas of his body that she couldn't see? It is surely the parents' job to decide whether their child will need cream applying in school.

These members of staff have made a misjudgement and the head teacher has compounded it by making excuses instead of investigating, explaining apologising and educating her staff.

The culture in the school sounds rather negative in terms of working in cooperation with parents.

OP I stand by my advice to ask for an account of the incident in writing.

Goldmandra You said earlier that if it was a formal complaint that the school would have to inform Ofsted - I didn't know that.
Is it that any safeguarding complaint gets referred?