To think that 3 teachers shouldn't have done this to my son?

[Marn1e]

My DS is 7 and in year 2. He's been swimming with the school every week for the past two terms and enjoys it a lot.

Last week he had a flare up of his eczema. For background, he's suffered since he was 3 months old and has been involved in clinical trials/ all sorts of treatments etc. I now generally just keep him moisturised etc and only use his 10% steroid cream when need be. Last week he was covered so I immediately used his cream and gave him anti histamine etc.

It coincided with swimming so I popped into the office on the relevant morning and told them he'd had a flare up of eczema and I was going to keep him off swimming for two weeks ( necessary because the steroid immediately gets to work but further applications are needed even when the patches are gone to continue "dampening' it all down.

Today was the second week so I didn't send him in with his kit. He's still covered but on the mend so he will be back to it next week.

He came out of school today and told me that a teaching assistant had approached him and asked him why he wasn't swimming. He told her he had eczema. She then called over another teacher and a helper and between them they asked him to pull up his trousers so they could see his legs and then asked him to pull up his tops so they could look at his chest, tummy and back. He did this but was obviously a bit bothered as it was the first thing he said to me when he came out of school.

I called the school and the relevant teachers had gone home, although the teacher I spoke to said there would have been a very good reason why they did this and he " probably said his skin was hurting so they had a look".

He didn't say this. He has never once complained about it and he's never had time off school for it. Besides, he told me he was approached by a TA who specifically asked to look at it.

I've asked the school to come back to me with an explanation. They obviously don't believe me ( err not sure why?!?! ) but instead of calling me they chose for three of them to get him to pull up his clothes.

So is this a big deal? Wwyd?

I get very frustrated with threads like this.

I believe that day-to-day teachers and non-teaching staff are doing their best. They're making mistakes, they're getting things wrong, but they're also getting so much right and not in the easiest of circumstances.

I think so many problems can be overcome by acknowledging that 99% of the adults involved, whether at home or at school, have the common purpose of what's best for the child. Sometimes, there's a disagreement or misunderstanding about how best to achieve that. We all need to remember that people in schools are our allies, not our enemies.

The answer as to why they're not allowed to check has already been given on this thread, but it's really very simple:

In case an abused child does exactly what OP's DS did - tells their parent.

IF the parent IS abusing them, you've just told them they're under suspicion. This won't magically make them stop. It's far, far more likely that they a) lash out at the child for 'letting the teacher', potentially injuring them or worse or b) move - and thereby start the suspicion/report/investigate/prosecute cycle all over again.

There is nothing to be gained from an untrained teacher checking. I can't tell the difference between a bruise gained from falling over and one from being hit - few people can, especially once that bruise is a day or more old.

It takes specialist training to be able to do that, so why risk tipping off the abuser to gain exactly nothing.

It's hard to swallow, that the teacher should do nothing, and easy to blame them, but the procedure is there for a reason.

As is the blanket rule that no-one should be removing a child's clothes. It's much easier to teach a child that it NEVER happens, than it 'might happen with this person, and that's okay, but if this person does it, that's not.'

Cross-posts

Teachers investigating their own suspicions about child abuse by checking under a child's clothing for injuries isn't a way to ensure that abuse isn't missed.

Teachers undertaking their own investigations in this manner would result in children being more vulnerable to abuse and it continuing for longer.

it isn't a case of better them check children than abuse gets missed. It is a case of better that they follow appropriate procedures than they investigate it themselves, make massive misjudgements, put the child at greater risk and blow any potential prosecution out of the water.

The school is clearly at fault. Which person within the school is a different matter... But the OP told the school, as far as I can see nobody asked her to put it in writing (and FWIW I'd have told the office rather than the teacher too, as I don't necessarily see the teacher in the morning when DC goes into the classroom - we've been told to notify the office of any absences, appointments, medical conditions etc and they put a note in the register for the appropriate time). Clearly the office didn't pass in the message and also clearly, either the teacher didn't actually check with the office or did but didn't believe the message or did and the office had failed to make a note of the call and had completely forgotten.

Whichever way you look at it, the school needs to improve its internal communications and safeguarding processes. Why is it ok for a teacher to ask a child to pull up his top? What if the eczema flare-up had been on his legs (my DD's eczema, like many children's, is most severe in skin creases, like behind her knees, rather than on her torso) - would they have been justified in asking him to pull down his trousers? All these posters going on about possible abuse - the child was made to feel intimidated, disbelieved, confused and uncomfortable. In what way is that 'child protection'?

hope you and your ds get a decent apology op, and the 3 teachers get a strict talking to about what is appropriate and what makes a child feel uncomfortable

So the procedure is tell SS and leave it up to them ...rather than a 2 sec visual check of something like this which can then be more or less ticked off (assuming no other possible indicators) as nothing to worry about!
Make a huge song and dance -create hours of work and paperwork - or do nothing....
whatever happened to common sense...
If there was bruising present (and no eczema) - would you not contact SS instantly -as an emergency? (as in this case it would be coupled with the evidence that the parent had tried to hide it) -would you really then just send the child home?
If that is the case that just illustrates how wrong the procedures are...
If you noticed suspicious bruising in passing - a top riding up while child is on climbing frame etc - you don't say anything and fill in the report and then coincidentally (the parent never knew) the child never comes back ...disappears...taken out of school so quickly that SS lose track because the next beating was too bad to cover up...

And I am assuming it was more than one teacher to safeguard the teacher against abuse claims ...

Next time one of you wonders why teachers just didn't use their common sense, this is why.
This is why the rules and the protocols are becoming embedded in every school across the land, and why you are phoned to take your child home at the drop of a hat, or on snow days or any other time you sigh and say 'the school should just...'
Or why we are going to become a completely non-tactile education system and follow all the rules at all times without deviation.
You should have put his condition in writing OP, you should have emailed his class teacher and made her aware of what was going on in this particular situation, and in case of future events.
But no, there's a note on his entrance records from over two years ago, and you had a word with someone in the office.
They could just have insisted he swim.

I honestly think it's a complete overreaction.

By whom?

If there was bruising present (and no eczema) - would you not contact SS instantly -as an emergency? (as in this case it would be coupled with the evidence that the parent had tried to hide it) -would you really then just send the child home?

Well, no. Children can get bruises for all sorts of reasons, if teachers contacted SS every time they would be deeply unpopular. And there is clearly no evidence whatsoever here that, if bruising had been present, the parent tried to hide it.

Assuming the teachers were checking, I really question what they thought they were doing, and why. How would they check if the reason a child can't swim is something non-visual? If a girl is not swimming due to a period, would they demand that she show them the evidence?

I have no problems with a teacher touching my child. I do not think for one moment that they are being untoward in a creepy inappropriate way.

the head has called me. rather nervously. she's not in the school today but has obviously been advised about my email. she's briefly spoken to one of the staff involved. I am being told that my son approached the teacher and said his eczema was painful and would they look at it for him. Apparently hes "confused " and nobody asked him why he wasn't swimming - he volunteered to show all.three his tummy and chest and legs. she then back tracked and said she'd look into it further.

they knew he wasn't swimming and she acknowledged that I'd advised them. she then did a lot of Umm ing and Aaghh ing and then couldn't wait to get me off the phone

I know he didn't ask them to look at his eczema. that didn't happen. it happened as he told.me and I fully believe the reason they checked him was because a they're nosy and fancied seeing what it looked like if indeed it existed and b they didn't believe me. thought he was just having a small swimming skive.

still - where.can you go when it's dead easy to accuse a little.boy of lying? she was trying to stop me saying the words " please explain your procedures to me " and when I said it she couldn't answer me. it was an uncomfortable conversation for her - trying to defend her staff and accuse my.son of fibbing

he has.no bruises unless you count his knees he does have a lot of eczema patches though. which they're now fully aware of even.though it's made him feel shy

I think that the head's in on it.

How is your child now that you're home schooling him?

This just has a really nasty feel about it.

I really hope your son is okay. Are you going to tell him he does not have to remove his clothes for anyone at all in future?

So I am going to try and talk about something difficult here, bear with me as I am tired and I hope I word it correctly.

I'm not a teacher and am not aware of what is and isn't correct procedure, however people are talking about child abuse and whether or not teacher's should check underneath clothing for signs of abuse.

I was abused and if a teacher had wanted to see under my clothes I would have been terrified and worried that they were bad people too. Teacher's aren't who I would have considered to be the people who would do that, maybe a doctor and if it were explained to me, but in a public room with more than one adult, that would have made me a lot less likely as a child to trust that adult. Any way I can think of actually, and knowing me I'd have mentioned it and I dread to think what that might have triggered.

I think this is one of the reasons there are rules in place to say what teachers can and can't do. You can't invade a child's privacy simply because you suspect abuse, but you can still do something about it.

Not that this is what the OP is about, it sounds like the school haven't followed procedures and were in the wrong, and they've made your DS uncomfortable. I get why you are angry.

Weird phone call. I know ds is only little, but if his eczema was painful I really don't see why he would have asked three relative strangers to look at it - surely he'd have just asked them to call you. Even if he did, surely the TA should just have taken him to the nurse/welfare lady or whoever.

You can't imagine a primary-aged pupil approaching a member of staff if something is hurting them??

Marn1e the Head must be shitting herself, quite frankly. If your DS had said that his eczema is hurting then staff ought to have taken him to the first aid room and contacted you. The Head will not be able to dispute that. Staff do not examine a medical issue in a corner of the lunch hall.
Their Safeguarding policy is likely available on the school website. It should also say who is their Safeguarding Lead.

They could notsay that your DS was lying and leave it at that, as why would he?

I would be much much more annoyed they are trying to turn it back on your son and say he is lying/mistaken. I suspect they were being officious busybodies and checking that he/you weren't swinging the lead. They either didn't know or didn't stop to consider they were being totally inappropriate. The Head has realised that they've cocked up and so have the staff involved so instead of apologising like the professional grownups they are trying to cover their arses. In doing so they have turned a minor incident in something a whole lot more serious. Personally I would go ballistic if I thought they were making my son out to be a liar.

Do you have any idea how often a 7 year old will say something that's not quite the whole truth in order to get the outcome they'd like?
Quite often, IME.

Lying/pretending/wishful thinking is part of growing up for most children.

'Marn1e the Head must be shitting herself, quite frankly.'

No, an experienced head will have enough experience and explanations to spin this quite well, and the OP has been somewhat negligent in informing the school properly of her son's medical condition, which the head may use as a reason for needing proof.
I still think that what happened was wrong, they should have phoned you and waited for an answer, but the head will be able to defend her staff's actions and promise a review of procedure.

rather than a 2 sec visual check of something like this which can then be more or less ticked off (assuming no other possible indicators) as nothing to worry about!

If the staff had enough reason to suspect abuse that they considered it necessary to check for bruising there is no way on this earth that a quick look at his torso and lower legs would justify ticking it off as nothing to worry about. So much could be missed so easily due to their lack of knowledge.

Suspicions of abuse should be investigated properly and sensitively by people who know what they are doing and why they are required to do it.

OP, I would ask for an account of the incident to be put in writing and signed by all those involved. If the school will not provide this I would put in a formal complaint so that they have to inform Ofsted. This is not the sort of incident a school should be glossing over.