For thinking my sister was too haste in cutting off family members after a racist remark?

[dolphinlover]

I'm an American who is married to an Englishman. We live in England. My sister back home is engaged to an African-American man. Several days before (back home) there was a family gathering (my sister and her fiance attended). A football game was on and after the game, during an interview a black player went on a rant against another player he had been in conflict with throughout the game. Our uncle then said, "typical n-words" in response to the interview. My sister's fiance was in the bathroom at the time and my uncle thought my sister was in the kitchen with the other girls but she was in the doorway and she heard loud and clear. Immediately after she heard that, she left with her fiance.

I know, the remark was very, very disgusting. My uncle comes from my father's side (brothers). My father's side are much more conservative than my mother's side. A few members from my dad's side were uncomfortable when she first started dating her fiance. But we sat down as a family and talked it out.

There's quite a bit of conflict in the family in the aftermath. My sister had a huge argument with our cousins (our uncle's children). They said he didn't mean it in the way he did. Which I don't really believe. How can you say that word and not mean what you intended? The intention was there.

But I think my sister has been too haste. She's basically cut that part of the family off and says she never wants anything to do with them. I come from a large family that is close for the most part. I just think it would be better for her to calm down (she's still furious - understandably so) and then make a definite conclusion.

I think your sister was completely reasonable and that she deserves her families support. If you all stick by her he should get the message that his attitude is not acceptable.

How does your dad feel about it OP?

lljkk I'm not British but I'm more than happy to be in the company of them on this issue. Excellent lets all pretend uncle is not a racist twat just to keep up appearances.

OP did they know about the meeting? I just don't understand why in the year 2014 your family felt the need to have to sit down and 'discuss' this? He didn't mean it in that way is a cop out and your cousins shouldn't be apologising for a grown ass man anyway. She doesn't need to calm down. He needs to apologise at the very least.

lljkk

moral highground ?

Your sister is right, yabu.

If you want to do the right thing, please stand by your sister. Your uncle's and his family's attitude is ignorant and despicable.
Please realise that your ds has her own family now and standing by her partner is exactly what she needs to do. Don't fall out with your sister over this!

Lljkk, how on earth is it taking the moral high ground to expect people to be treated equally? I prefer to look at it as normal behaviour to treat others as equals and I fail to see how skin colour can possibly make any difference.

I'd happily take her side.

If I were your sister, I would have given them the push at the inconceivable fucking arrogance of them thinking it was in any way appropriate to 'sit down and talk out' the fact that, as a bunch of racists, they had issues with my choice of partner. The ONLY acceptable response to any one of them having issues like that would be to be deeply and secretly ASHAMED of those feelings. But no, racism is acceptable enough in that family for the response to be calling a meeting!

Your sister is taking absolutely the right stance to protect her family, I'm only surprised she's not done it before.

Your uncle waited until he thought your sister and her fiancé were out if earshot.

So he knew his remark was offensive to them, and quite tellingly, he also knew that neither you nor any other family members present would challenge him on his comment.

Nice family.

red In principle yes, but why should the poster's sister and her fiancé have to relive 'guess who's coming to dinner' in what will probably be a doomed attempt to change the mind of this bunch of racists.

Why should they have to be ambassadors for the idea of multiracial couple and not just be themselves? Their mere existence hate won't address their thinking. Even if they end up liking the fiancé he will be the exception to the rule he is 'not bad for a black man' or 'not like those other niggers'

I wonder if a family conference was called when the op started dating a (presumably) caucasian Englishman?

So, your family had to sit down together and discuss her dating an African American....
In spite of that your sister wanted them to get to know her fiance and they repayed her with racist, offensive language. And then you wonder why they've been cut out?

^this

If you keep pushing for her to accept the "apology" and repair family ties, then you will soon find yourself with your uncle and cousins, I fear.

How do you actually apologize for saying racist remarks, when the remarks are but a figment of your intrinsical beliefs? A racist saying "I am sorry for using the N word" is not actually an apology, it is just game play and veiled manipulation.

Give your sis time and protect your own relationships, don't take sides in this row

Seriously? Don't take sides? In a situation like this, not taking sides is siding with racists and other bigoted excuses. This isn't someone passing a hurtful remark about something trivial, this is a situation where someone is being asked to skate over the most personal, the most offensive abuse of her partner.

Do takes sides, OP. Side with your sister, your BIL, your future nieces/nephews, your mother and your husband.

They said it best:

what was the family meeting about, was it whether they would pretend to accept this black person into their family or whether they would cut the sister and her fiancé out of their lives?

at the first sign of an argument, they will call the fiancé the n word without thinking about it. the sister is better off away from these people.

Hate the sin but love the sinner and all that

Yeah well, she can "love the sinner" from a good healthy distance.

Is forgiving sins always dependent on true contrition?

Hasty? Not even a bit. I think you need to consider the family meeting, where they judged the man she loves on nothing but the colour of his skin, as a generous final warning. They all (uncle AND his defenders) broke the truce, leaving her no option butto disengage.

It is not up to your sister to hang around and reeducate these bigoted scumbags. It's up to her to remove herself and her husband from a social structure that exposes them both, and any children they might have, to vile, racist attitudes. If she didn't, I think her husband would be within his rights to ask some hard questions about why she valued their feelings above his.

As for your uncle's apology... The comment about him thinking she was somewhere else indicates that if he's sorry for anything, he's only sorry for getting caught. That isn't an apology at all, and the burden of proof is on him if he wants to claim otherwise. Personally I don't even buy that he thought she wouldn't hear: someone low enough to make that kind of comment is not above saying it as a jibe at her. If she never chooses to reengage with him, frankly I don't think she'll be any worse off.

She's probably SO ashamed of her family.
can you write to her and tell her You're ashamed of your uncle's remark and ask her forgiveness for not saying something at the time.

I think instead of calling her hasty you have to make some effort to restore her faith in her own family.

Uh, American here thank you. And standing right here in the moral high ground and very much taking a stand. There are racists now there were racists 50 years ago and 200 years ago.

But there were also always people who fought for equality and before that abolitionist. age is not an excuse for cuntery. My 70 year old grandmother would tell you quite loudly what sh thinks of the N word

I have lived in America and have American family. None of them would condone this disgusting behaviour. It's insulting to suggest that people taking a firm stance on it are in some way trying to "take the moral high ground" .

Hmmm, I'm reading this thread in a different way to many. The OP is getting a kicking over the fact that she's not supporting her sister, that she's on the side of the uncle, and is actually, herself, racist.

Taking what the OP has written, she does support her sister, she thinks the remark was very, very disgusting, and she has doubts whether any apology could be sincere.

As I read the thread, the OP is definitely on the side of her sister but is struggling with whether it is possible for this family breach to be mended.

Here's an attempt to clarify something that is repeatedly being mis-stated:

TheMaw: And you had a family meeting to discuss who she was seeing? WTAF? Was she there?

dolphinlover: And yes, my sis was present.

I have lived in America and have American family. None of them would condone this disgusting behaviour. It's insulting to suggest that people taking a firm stance on it are in some way trying to "take the moral high ground" .

I have lived in America and have American family. None of them would condone this disgusting behaviour. It's insulting to suggest that people taking a firm stance on it are in some way trying to "take the moral high ground" .

I'm not suggesting op is racist. I do however find the idea that a family has to have a meeting to cope with the idea of one of them dating a black person are not people I would choose to be around and cloaking it in terms like "conservative" doesn't make any of it any better.

Your Sister is not being unreasonable.

I'm suggesting that the OP take a look at her views on race, personally. I believe that if the question she has is how can sis accommodate Uncle Racist, she's not really on board with how bad his behaviour is. And that's something to consider.