to think this teacher is a bit of a cowbag?

[SaintLauren]

My DD is 5 is they started to learn how to sing "Alouette" in school. My DH is french and does not like this song because of what it's about and my DD can understand the song too.

Today she told her teacher that her dad doesn't like her singing that song because of what it means.

And the teacher replied that - yes that was absolutely fine, do you like the song Ring Around The Rosie.

My DD said yes she loved that song and the teacher replied that it's a song about people dying from the plague.

Aibu to think this makes her a cowbag?

I think you do sound over precious sorry

My DD doesn't like it and if she did then I wouldn't be an issue. I don't mind her singing the song but if she doesn't like it then why should I force a 5 year old to do that?

If a child didn't like a particular story I wouldn't force them to sit down and listen to it.

At the school I work at we've taught Alloutte (,as a warm up before French lessons,) -amongst several other songs e.g. Meunier Tu Dors, and french versions of Head,shoulders,knees and toes, and the Hokey Cokey.

Its just a fun way of listening to spoken french. It is unfortunate that the OP's daughter knows what it is about. We didn't go into details. (We use a qualified french teacher in our primary school)

I can remember my Welsh grandmother teaching me 'Sospan Vach' when I was little. I was a bit about the cat scratching little Johnny!!! (A'r gath wedi sgrapo Joni bach.)

Its exactly the same, its you and your DH undermining the teacher by saying that if your DD doesn't like it she doesn't have to do it.

It's really not. Using your maths example, if my DD came home and told me she did not like maths then I would find out why and would sit with her and help her - if she really struggled then I would speak to her teacher about it. I would never say - "aww you don't like it sweetheart, then don't worry you don't have to do it."

To use a same example if there was a story she really didn't like because she find it upsetting then I wouldn't expect her to have to sit down and listen to it.

I teach all my children to stand up for what they believe in and if they think something is wrong then to say so - not in a cheeky way but in a they are able to form their own opinion.

Sometimes we all adults and children have to do things we don't like very much.It's the way the world works.

Its just a fun way of listening to spoken french. It is unfortunate that the OP's daughter knows what it is about.

Exactly - thank you.

If my DD couldn't speak French then I wouldn't care because it would just be meaningless words to her. She didn't like the song enough to bring it up in conversation to both myself and DH.

I wouldn't force my child to do anything that wasn't necessary.

Do French children sing Alouette at school? no they dont!

In France at a friends childs school Nativity they were using Fairy Tale of New York, with the kids singing along to some parts of it, when speaking to the teacher after it was obvious that they didnt understand the lyrics at all but thought it was a nice christmassy song, when in fact it was totally inappropriate for children of 6/7 to be singing

it is important to ensure that the songs being sang are appropriate, especially if a child understands them and the words are graphic or unpleasant, for that OP YANBU

but YABU for calling the teacher a cow bag

Are you going to spend her whole school career telling the teachers which songs and books they can use in lessons?

Because,guaranteed, there will be many,many songs, books video clips that will be shown and used in that time which she might not like, but it will be part of the lesson that she is learning.

If she doesn't like PE, will you say she doesn't have to do it?

there are so many lovely French songs and rhymes that could be used instead, they may well have other meanings or be related to less pleasant events but these are not graphic or obvious

Are you going to spend her whole school career telling the teachers which songs and books they can use in lessons?

a good teacher, and there are many of them, will search for age appropriate songs and books and wont need to be told

How precisely where OP and her DH undermining the teacher? My understanding is that DD and her DH had this conversation long before the song every came up at school, at which point DD explained that she does not like singing that song.

This is very mumsnet - teachers need defending more than 5 year olds

I took me a while to type my last comment...I see you have answered that to someone else!

Sometimes we all adults and children have to do things we don't like very much.It's the way the world works.

She doesn't like spelling - but I make her do it.
She doesn't like tidying her bedroom - but I make her do it.
She doesn't like brushing her teeth - but I make her do it.

She does a lot of things that she doesn't like.

My other DD used to be terrified of an advert for Hungry Hippos and used to cry when it came on - I used turn the channel over or switch the tv off. Should I have held her head in my hands and made her watch it? Would it have had any benefit? No.

I'll admit to be sad and watching Coronation Street. I have not watched it at all this week because of Hayley dying of cancer (too close to home so very upsetting) so I decided not to watch it.

Yes we all have to do things in life we don't like but there are also some things in life where we can say no I don't want to that as this has no benefit to my life or anyone else's and make that choice for ourselves.

Sounds to me like the sensible thing would have been for you or DH to go to the school to explain that your DD didn't like the song and why, rather than your DD going in and saying she didn't like the song, and that her daddy didn't like it either, so she wasn't going to sing it.

I imagine that the your DD telling her she wasn't singing the song could have been construed by the teacher as your DD being cheeky, even if your DD didn't mean it that way- especially if she said it in front of the whole class.

As we don't know exactly what was said by your DDs teacher, or how it was said, it's hard to know if it was being unreasonable. If she'd said something about how many nursery rhymes are based on unpleasant things and used ring o'roses as an example, then I don't think it was too bad- although if her reaction upset your DD, I can see why you might be concerned.

What I'd take from this scenario is until she's a bit older if you don't want DD doing something at school, then you or DH should talk to the teacher about it rather than allowing her to dictate what she will and will not do to the teacher (however right/valid you think her opinion may be).

Yuck - I didn't know the words meant that!

The teacher's point about - ahem I think its more correct title - "Ring-a-ring o'roses" is moot because Ring-a-ring o'roses does not talk about the plague directly. If it went "Bleeding beneath the skin, breathe through this it might he-lp, sud-den sneez-ing, we're all gonna die!" she might have a point.

The problem is that the lyrics are not very nice to someone who understands them, and as she clearly did NOT understand them she then went on to try to score points of the OP's DD.

I think YANBU, OP.

Mind you when my DCs' singing group sang that song about the Bumble Bee I had a real cats-bum face on as I think it's horrible - none of the other parents seemed to mind.

Are you going to spend her whole school career telling the teachers which songs and books they can use in lessons?

Absolutely not. I have not done so far (neither have I done this for my older children) but if my child comes and tells me they found something they watched/read in a lesson upsetting then I would look into what it was they watched. If it was age appropriate (like another poster said) I would sit down with them and talk to them about the situation and help them understand it or it wasn't then I would maybe talk to the teacher - it depends and I have not been in that situation before. I don't bring my children up believing the world is made up of rainbows and candy.

If she doesn't like PE, will you say she doesn't have to do it?

Again stupid comment which I have already explained with the maths example. I would never excuse her from any lesson (without an extremely valid reason) - this is a 5-10 minute carpet activity.

Sounds to me like the sensible thing would have been for you or DH to go to the school to explain that your DD didn't like the song and why, rather than your DD going in and saying she didn't like the song, and that her daddy didn't like it either, so she wasn't going to sing

I have already explained this.

It is a 5-10minute carpet activity they do about twice a week and then they will usually go on to have story time. They sing a different song each week (seems to be rotated) and they have never sung Alouette before and as they change the song I didn't feel the need to go into school and explain as it seemed like a one-off.

Everything Balloon said.

'Twas a cow baggy response.

YANBU.

I just said that sometimes we have to do things we don't like. I didn't say that anybody should be made to do something that frightened them. I'm not unfeeling.

It was my maths example and I stand by it. I actually agree that the song's inappropriate, but you went about it the wrong way. Unfortunately the chances of you admitting that are rarer than a lark's teeth, so I'll just leave it there.

Lots of English nursery rhymes, sung to and by English children, so presumably they understand the words, are 'not very nice'. Maids getting their noses pecked off, cats down wells, people being thrown down the stairs. I found Wee Willie Winkie really scary. (But it got me into bed.) Would you call them 'age inappropriate'? Nursery rhymes? Should they have a disclaimer, warning of distressing content? Or a phone number you can ring if you've been affected by the song?

I do think you're being a bit precious, OP. Might as well censor and ban most of our traditional fairy tales, too.

Would you call them 'age inappropriate'? Nursery rhymes? Should they have a disclaimer, warning of distressing content? Or a phone number you can ring if you've been affected by the song?

My DD can sing and learn any nursery rhyme she wants to but if she doesn't like one then why would I force her to sing it?

There's no need for sarcasm to illustrate your point. Your point is far from the mark anyway. If it was me who personally had the problem with it and DD couldn't care less then yes that is being ridiculously precious.

Me not forcing my daughter to do something she finds upsetting I refuse to see that as being precious - not many how much sarcasm and cheap laughs you throw at me.

Might as well censor and ban most of our traditional fairy tales, too

Yeah might as well.

I wouldn't particularly want to tell my 5 year old that in the proper fairytale that sleeping beauty is actually raped.

Or that there are connotations of pedophilia in the Pied Piper.

Or that the ugly sisters cut parts of their feet off and then get their eyes pecked out and become blind beggars for the rest of their life in Cinderella.

Maybe I am precious, but I also think childhood is precious and it's the only time in your life where you don't know what a horrible and cruel world we exist in.

You went about it the wrong way. Unfortunately the chances of you admitting that are rarer than a lark's teeth, so I'll just leave it there

I don't know what you mean.

Wrong way? I've already said I am neither going to complain to the teacher/ht/anyone involved in the school.

Yes I should have explained to the teacher myself but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I have already previously explained that it's a small activity (not an actual lesson) and they sing a different song each week so I wrongly assumed that they would not be singing it again.

Yes I was wrong to refer to her as "a bit of a cowbag", I genuinely wasn't really thinking when I wrote the title and I don't think she is a cowbag but I do think her approach was wrong.

I honestly don't know what other thing I have gone the wrong way about?

At home you can always choose what you read or sing. At school that's not possible. The choice is being made for a group of children who may be the same age but have different likes and dislikes. However age appropriate the story there will probably be a child who doesn't like it. That's when children have to learn that we just have to put up with some things. They will have a story they like another day.

At home you can always choose what you read or sing. At school that's not possible

Did I say it was? No.

You really are just commenting to say the obvious.

I don't go into school every week and demand a lesson plan and read through every book or study each song to decide whether it's appropriate or not.

But again I'll say this (for the hundredth time) I'm not going to force my child to do something she finds upsetting (it's irrelevant how I feel personally about the song) - it in no way benefits her life to sing a song about plucking out a birds eyes.