to think this teacher is a bit of a cowbag?

[SaintLauren]

My DD is 5 is they started to learn how to sing "Alouette" in school. My DH is french and does not like this song because of what it's about and my DD can understand the song too.

Today she told her teacher that her dad doesn't like her singing that song because of what it means.

And the teacher replied that - yes that was absolutely fine, do you like the song Ring Around The Rosie.

My DD said yes she loved that song and the teacher replied that it's a song about people dying from the plague.

Aibu to think this makes her a cowbag?

Many childhood tales and songs are actually pretty grim, if you fully understand them. Sleeping Beauty? The original is in part about puberty, menstruation and virginity! The hit Disney movie "Pochahontas"? Not such a hit if you know the real story! And so on.

You have to choose to ignore the background while children are very young and maybe enlighten them later.

As an MFL teacher, I like "Tete, epaules, genoux, pieds" for body parts.

Heavy Words, Lightly Thrown' is a very readable but well-researched and critically well-received book about the history of nursery rhymes. It states that there is no definite evidence one way or the other to confirm whether 'Ring a Rosies' is or is not about the plague but suggests that it is at least to some extent about some kind of malady, the threat of death from various illnesses, etc.
Perhaps the teacher would have been better to have made this into a mini discussion (as someone has suggested up-post) about how folk-songs are ways of exploring aspects of life, politics, etc.
If I were the teacher I would have said your DD did not have to sing the song but could she ask her DF to tell her some songs he did enjoy singing as a child. I think you should probably just let it go as an incident. It's still early in the school year and I don't think this one is worth prolonging.

Do French children sing Alouette at school?

If they do, I can't see the problem.

i didn't like Who Killed Cock Robin? But I got over it.

I suspect the teacher didnt understand the song and that's what is at the heart of her unreasonable response. It clearly was an unreasonable response since the OP has said that her DD didnt know the urban myth about ring a ring of roses being 'about the plague'. So the teacher must have said that - and it can't have been meant kindly. And it was also, of course, misinformation. Something you always like to see coming from a teacher! Even if OPs daughter is not a vegetarian it's likely that there are vegetarians in the class and they shouldn't be made to sing a graphic song like that. I wouldn't describe anyone as a cowbag but this teacher sounds like she isn't actually very good at her job. Which is probably worse.

"but this teacher sounds like she isn't actually very good at her job."

That's a huge leap to make from one biased post.

Fgs - who'd be a teacher? To have your every passing comment micro-analysed on Mumsnet. And to have to Think About the Vegetarians. They shouldn't be made to sing a graphic song like that? How about Here Comes a Chopper to Chop off your Head?

I think she actually did pretty well to come up with the point about nursery rhymes often being about darker topics than their jaunty tunes.

But to expand this into a whole class discussion about folksongs exploring aspects of life, politics etc.??? These are 5 yr olds, some of whom will be more like 3 yr olds. Not to mention far too busy with their phonemes and number bonds and whether they're drinking enough water or where's their missing mitten.

Please. Get real.

"Even if OPs daughter is not a vegetarian it's likely that there are vegetarians in the class and they shouldn't be made to sing a graphic song like that."

Woah there! Don't drag the veggies into it, please. The fact that my son is vegetarian does not mean he is squeamish about meat preparation and I would be mortified to think that anybody was tip-toeing about any mention of dead-animal-food-products on his behalf!

I think the main point is, if you don't want your 5 yo to take part in a classroom activity you have to speak to the school and explain why. You just can't have a small child telling a teacher they're not taking part in x,y and z - as is demonstrated by the teacher's response, which was to put the child firmly back in her place. Fair enough, teacher probably could have handled it better. But you should have sorted it out for her.

My DS hates maths. He's not allowed to go in and say that he's not taking part though.

My DS hates maths. He's not allowed to go in and say that he's not taking part though.

Yes because that's exactly the same. What a fantastic comparison, because obviously if my DD decides she doesn't like Science or English then I'll tell her she doesn't have to do it.

Or rather I think her deciding for herself that she does not like a song because it's cruel and does not want to sing about it will not ruin her education.

And fyi -

For about 2 afternoons a week the children have carpet time and sing a song which lasts around 5-10 minutes. They generally sing a different song each time and have never sung Alouette before. So I didn't think I needed to go in and speak to anyone about it actually.

No 5 year old likes being "told off"

Never said she told her off, DD never said she got told off. I don't believe for one second that she did tell her off. The part where the teacher said it was absolutely fine (you know in the OP) was sort of a big give away......

This really isn't about the song. It's about a 5 year old going into school and telling the teacher what lessons she and her dad have decided she is prepared to take part in that day.Nobody knows how the teacher reacted. She may have been a bit short or she may have given a great explanation. I imagine the day is not far off when all teachers will need to send their lesson plans home to every parent to check someone is not offended.

"Am I being unreasonable to think this teacher is a bit of a cowbag?"

Yes, I think you are.

If it was anywhere but mn I would assume it was a wind up. Needs to be moved to classics.

Its exactly the same, its you and your DH undermining the teacher by saying that if your DD doesn't like it she doesn't have to do it.

Think yabu with your cowbag comments to the teacher.
Just wondering if maybe your daughter doesn't like the song because your dh doesnt.

Thymeout I insist you expand on Here Comes a Chopper to Chop Off Your Head. Sounds ace!!

Theo, it's the end of Oranges and Lemons.

If you don't know it, once you've gone through all the bells, you go 'Here comes a candle to light you to bed/Here comes a chopper to chop off your head!'

While the kids form two parallel lines, touching hands so forming an arch, and the ones at the end run through the lines. The pair at the other end who are still forming an arch bring their arms down sharply and catch one of the kids coming through to chop off their head. Much squealing and excitement.

Right, we have googled and are now off o the garden to amputate each other. Dogs and a old doll have also been conscripted.

Edam, our version went: "Here comes a chopper to chop off your head, chop, chop, chop, chop, the last man's dead!"

Ring a Roses isn't about the plague. So she's a cowbag for peddling bland urban myths, instead of perhaps teaching the kids to go research a song's true origins and not believe oft-repeated, inaccurate soundbites :)

But she is a cowbag for basically trying to ruin a little girl's love of a song.

Oh ! Just got to the end of the thread...I was going to mention about Oranges and Lemons and the head chopping at the end! The version I know is :
"Here comes a candle to light you to bed, and here comes a chopper to chop off your head,chip,chop,chip,chop, the last man's ...DEAD!"

I don't think it did me or any of my friends any harm! (?)

Children's nursery rhymes are quite brutal too.
I think you do sound over precious sorry

Pressed send too soon. I don't think the teacher reacted badly. She was pointing out a valid response and understanding