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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Mother who killed her 3 children visited 50 times by social services (Upsetting content).

195 replies

InsanityandBeyond · 23/01/2014 21:30

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2544146/Children-kept-horrific-conditions-drowned-pregnant-mother-visited-social-workers-FIFTY-times-council-failed-act.html

Controversial question but should fathers in this situation be prosecuted for child neglect as they have left their children in these situations. Shouldn't they be be responsible in ensuring their children are not at risk of harm even from their own mothers?

Incidents like this seem to be becoming more common. What should be done if families like this 'refuse' to engage with SS? Shouldn't the children's welfare come before the mother's rights? A similar case is this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424335/Amanda-Hutton-starved-son-death-claimed-child-be...

Horrifying Sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
InsanityandBeyond · 23/01/2014 21:34

Don't get how the father is blaming SS. It has been reported that the mother was only feeding the DC biscuits. Who knew this and why didn't they intervene Angry?

OP posts:
foreverondiet · 23/01/2014 21:46

Horrific. IMO social services ignore too much abuse - having children is a privilege not a right and SS should be much quicker to intervene - and yes take children away if that's best for them - a child not attending nursery regularly without good explanation is a massive red flag.

JaquelineHyde · 23/01/2014 21:53

I haven't read the serious case review on this so can only go on the Daily Mail article.

It looks like mistakes were made by all people involved, not just social services, but obviously ss will as always bare the brunt of these criticisms.

I hope that the student social worker that was sent to work with the family is ok.

Those poor children, it breaks my heart.

TheFabulousIdiot · 23/01/2014 22:05

I have only read what you have linked to but, yes, I do think the role of both parents should be taken into account, particularly where there is a history of domestic violence.

I don't know abut prosecuting him for leaving them but I would expect there to be some consideration of his role in the mental health issues the mother had and the impact that would have had on the family as a whole.

Certainly, if my husband andi split up and he had part or whole custody of the children and I had any suspicion that he was treating them in the way this woman was I would be doing my best to get them properly looked after. This article doesn't show if the father actually did attempt to do that so can't really judge either way.

monicalewinski · 23/01/2014 22:38

The lady with the 3 children (Fiona Anderson), just makes my heart ache - she clearly had mental health problems and the father was there, why on earth did he do bugger all? He blames as, but he should be shouldering a massive amount of responsibility imo.

monicalewinski · 23/01/2014 22:39

*SS, not as

ToddleWaddle · 23/01/2014 22:46

Incredibly sad. The poor kids had no future. The father must bear a significant amount of responsibility given he was happy to reproduce so quickly and repeatedly.

VelvetSpoon · 23/01/2014 22:47

Appallingly sad.

The children were failed by both parents, and each of their families. And by SS. It's awful.

The father has a nerve pointing the finger at SS. Yes, they certainly made mistakes BUT he was living there until just weeks before, he was clearly complicit in his children's treatment! He's lucky imo not to be facing charges for neglect.

AnnieLobeseder · 23/01/2014 22:50

It's a Daily Mail article. It will be mostly a work of fiction. They are well known for posting whatever they think will sell papers (and vilify mothers/immigrants), then doing a retraction later. Even if there is any truth to the story it will have been twisted and skewed to fit the sensationalistic MO of the Mail

They are scum.

fancyanotherfez · 23/01/2014 22:51

Not to mention thinking maybe getting a woman clearly not coping pregnant four times in four years wasn't a great idea. The fathers always blame others and wring their hands in these cases but never take responsibility when the children were alive

PistolAnnies · 23/01/2014 22:53

Oh my word, didn't realise this was about Fiona Anderson until I read the link Hmm I was deeply saddened and touched by this story back in April and my heart was with Fiona at the time. I'm sad to read this, but still blame Craig for an awful lot of this too

Caitlin17 · 23/01/2014 22:56

I'm always amazed when the fathers and their families in this type of case have no inkling they failed their children too.

PistolAnnies · 23/01/2014 22:56

By the way, Craig was off with another girl while Fiona was carrying his 4th child, so he is partly to blame in my opinion Hmm

nennypops · 23/01/2014 23:15

The trouble is, if Social Services had stepped in and taken the children into care, they'd have had the likes of John Hemming baying about child snatching conspiracies.

TheFabulousIdiot · 23/01/2014 23:27

I hadn't joined the dots re how recently he had been living there. Yes, he must bear some of the blame. Has he got his new girlfriend pregnant yet?

Alisvolatpropiis · 23/01/2014 23:48

Truly very sad.

Of course he must be to blame for some the neglect. They were his children! To me it is outrageous that he has the gall to blame SS when he was there and could have done something himself.

Spero · 23/01/2014 23:59

This is horrible on so many levels.

I agree that the primary responsibility for the welfare of children lies with their parents. You can have all the serious case reviews you like but I think there will always be cracks in state protection into which children will fall.

I would like to know a lot more about why their father either didn't know or did nothing about the fact they were starving to death.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/01/2014 02:40

The whole affair is just totally ghastly. I have read the serious case review and you really don't need a social work degree to determine that there was no way this was "good enough" parenting. Nor did you need a medical degree to work out that the mother had mental health issues.

I do agree that there needs to be much more scrutiny (and charges, if appropriate) in relation to the fathers in these situations. Value judgement or not, fathers who are present and engaged with their children (whether in a relationship with the mother or not) act as a further safety control.

TheOrchardKeeper · 24/01/2014 06:14

Unfortunately, the cuts that have been made to councils since the tories came in really affects the money social workers have & therefore what they can 'afford' to do. My mum's a SW & she says it breaks her heart how many cases of low-level neglect they see & can't really do anything about (especially if proof is scarce & the parents are very unwilling to cooperate). The main reason they can't do much if it's 'just' neglect (and not life threatening) is that there's only enough money to deal with the very serious cases. It shouldn't be like that.

This is just so very very sad.

I do feel sorry for the mum as well as the children tbh. Imagine being pregnant & feeling that was your only choice, for whatever reason. What kind of place must she have been in. And those poor bloody kids Sad

The article states they fought in front of the kids & even when she was holding one once...But now the dad is all tears & blame. Hmm

Poor family.

GoshAnneGorilla · 24/01/2014 06:44

Could anyone post a link to the relevant Serious Case Reviews?

Original poster
InsanityandBeyond · 24/01/2014 11:48

Fucking hell. That's worse than I thought. Perhaps if the father had told the police she had stabbed him, those children could have been saved Angry.

I can't understand how anyone can feel any empathy for the mother. She deliberately killed those DC in a horrific way to get back at the father, even dropping off her front door keys so he would find them. SS would have taken them off her in a heartbeat if she had told them she could not cope, better that than them dead right?

Pure fucking evil.

OP posts:
Owllady · 24/01/2014 11:53

They should have removed them much earlier, but I suspect they couldn't because of what a poster above has said 're budgets. Foster care is expensive.

MojitoMadness · 24/01/2014 12:07

In regards to the first case, where was the dad when all this happening? He found time to impregnate his wife 4 times, but had no time to notice his children were being neglected and starved? He should be charged with manslaughter or child neglect at the least! He was to busy shagging another woman to look after his kids and he has the audacity to criticise social services! Hmm

KarmaVersusGeorgeOsbourne · 24/01/2014 12:09

So the father was living with the children up until a few weeks before their deaths, yet it's all the fault of SS and his ex partner?

I know the DM is full of shit, but if the quotes about the children 'sleeping in a double pushchair for 13 nights' and 'only being fed biscuits' are true, that was in May 2011. What that mother did was utterly awful, but it's clear that she had dreadful mental health problems. What is the father's excuse?