Mother who killed her 3 children visited 50 times by social services (Upsetting content).

[InsanityandBeyond]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2544146/Children-kept-horrific-conditions-drowned-pregnant-mother-visited-social-workers-FIFTY-times-council-failed-act.html

Controversial question but should fathers in this situation be prosecuted for child neglect as they have left their children in these situations. Shouldn't they be be responsible in ensuring their children are not at risk of harm even from their own mothers?

Incidents like this seem to be becoming more common. What should be done if families like this 'refuse' to engage with SS? Shouldn't the children's welfare come before the mother's rights? A similar case is this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424335/Amanda-Hutton-starved-son-death-claimed-child-be...

Horrifying .

[SaucyJack]

There was nothing to suggest the father was abusive either to the mother or the children

I really don't see the need to start making things up. I think the facts are quite bad enough thankyouverymuch.

[LEMmingaround]

Being a social worker is right there at the top of the list of jobs that i could never do. How can they get it right when they are dealing with something so incomprehensible as parents hurting their own children (not commenting of op as don't want to read the article). Even more so when it is a case of neglect through someone being incapable for whatever reason. Because if they don't remove the children from their parents then they are leaving them at risk from harm, but removing children from their parents is distressing and will cause long term damage (even if it is the only option) to those children. It is all about putting the children first, ever single time and I frankly don't know how they do that job.

I also wonder if its time that a different agency stepped in when it was time to be taking children away? There is such a level of mistrust for social workers who after all, are there to help and want to keep families together where possible. How that would be organised i don't know.

[TheXxed]

In June 2009 an application by the council for child protection was refused. Is there any way to find out why?

[helenthemadex]

the father should be held accountable, she was obviously ill with mh issues, there were long term issues with the children that the father who had left only a month previously would have been aware of, he did nothing to protect them

A very sad case all round

[Birdsgottafly]

"In June 2009 an application by the council for child protection was refused. Is there any way to find out why?"

The Serious Case Review, will answer what went wrong.

Unfortunately sometimes the law requiring that Parents be allowed to have a chance to parent, means that the children are going to be put at risk.

It is usually a very involved relative that keeps children safe (ish).

There will always be children, murdered, accidentally killed, injured and permanently disabled by the actions, or lack of them by their Care Givers.

[Poppiesway]

The father attacked the mother with a knife the night before his happened, she called the police. It was all settled as a domestic case.
The mother had wrote on the walls of their flat that she had done what she did to protect them from their father and to keep them safe.
This was information reported locally.
I'm not saying it was the father that killed them, it was the mother. A member of the family also jumped to her death from the same spot Fiona did after the court hearing happened regarding this situation.

[caruthers]

It was the father who was stabbed the night before.

Officers called at Ms Anderson's home early on Monday following reports that Mr McLelland had been stabbed by a man in Mill Road on Sunday night

They spoke to a woman via intercom but were refused entry, police said

Mr McLelland has since told police he had not been attacked in Mill Road but had been wounded in Ms Anderson's London Road South home

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-22170624

[Birdsgottafly]

The Father isn't accountable, she had stabbed him the night before, he had phoned the police, he was treated in hospital.

The police spoke to her through a intercom and left.

Unless you have residency, you have little power, SS involvement can remove power from relatives and cut them out. That still goes unrecognised.

[Birdsgottafly]

The SCR has identified that the Father reported the stabbing, by her, in the property were the children were, he had to leave, for his own safety.

She posted her keys, through his door, for him to find his children dead.

[gordyslovesheep]

I thought the SCR said he didn't tell them SHE had stabbed him until after the children where found?

[gordyslovesheep]

""^At 8.05 p.m. the father called an ambulance claiming he had been stabbed from behind by an
unknown male. As the initial statement by the father had said he had been in the vicinity of
the mother and children’s flat, in the early hours of the next morning, a police officer spoke to
the mother at her address through the intercom. The Police also thought the incident might
have been linked to a domestic dispute. She said that she had not seen the father for a month
and would not come to the door^"

[gordyslovesheep]

"Later that day, the father informed the Police that it was in fact the mother who had stabbed
him following an argument about their separation in which she said that if he remained with
his new girlfriend, he would not be able to see the children again. He also explained that soon
after the stabbing incident, when in hospital he had told the mother via text that he had not
told the Police what had happened and that she should hide the knife."

[gordyslovesheep]

That was later the day the kids where found - after they had been found

[Spero]

sorry SaucyJack but I think there is a lot to suggest emotional abuse at the very least from the father to the mother.

No one is 'blameless' here - certainly not the parents. And LA should have been far more robust at earlier stage.

But hindsight is a gift.

What sticks in my throat is how the father is reported as saying it is all LA's fault and taking no responsilbity. But this could be just how the Mail is reporting it - I wouldn't be at all surprised as that makes for juicier story.

[Spero]

I dont understand the police's actions either. If they knew there were children in that house they should have kicked door down after reports of stabbing, not simply gone away when they were 'refused entry' over intercom.

[caruthers]

Spero it looks like she killed the children because she had control issues and it also appears that it was she that stabbed him.

The Mother isn't the victim, the children are and the father is the one left to pick up the pieces.

Pointing fingers at him without a shred of proof is disgusting and crass.

[gordyslovesheep]

he reported being stabbed near the house not IN the house and didn't report it was her - police checked on her because of the relationship and the stabbing - I am guessing to see she was okay.

[gordyslovesheep]

Yes I agree - I am guessing he regrets many action and would love to be able to rewind time - he's lost 4 kids and her - the relationship wasn't especially healthy I imagine but he's still lost everything.

I honestly don't view her as any different to the many men who kill their kids and themselves to teach their wives a lesson

[KarmaVersusGeorgeOsbourne]

I didn't realise that a member of the mother's family had also committed suicide. Was it on the news?

This is probably one of the most awful cases I've heard of in a long time, really.

[Birdsgottafly]

The only thing that could of prevented this was the removal of the children and her being sectioned.

He didn't want the children to be removed that night, so he didn't report it as her.

It could if been easily pieced together, had the police entered the property, but then she was heavily pregnant.

These children died because their Mother killed them.

SS tried to keep the family together, the SCR isn't pointing fingers.

[caruthers]

I honestly don't view her as any different to the many men who kill their kids and themselves to teach their wives a lesson

Absolutely spot on gordy.

[Spero]

I am not pointing fingers at anyone.

I am relying on the evidence of the serious case review - this was a man who refused to engage with children's services in 2009, calling the SW 'liars'.

Thanks for clarifying the stabbing bit, I was getting confused. But this is also a man who was stabbed by the mother and left all his children in her care because he wouldn't report it accurately to the police.

He is complicit in the deaths of his children, of that there is no doubt at all. He should have taken responsibility to protect them. He didn't. In fact he lied to the people who would have helped, such as the police and refused to co-operate with others such as SW.

[Birdsgottafly]

There has been five cases similar to this, recently, I think this has reached the news because of the multiple child deaths.

SS involvement can give abusive Parents power against relatives that are trying to help the children.

Then if services are dismissing the information being given, then there is little that you can do.

Baby P's Dad was arrested and an injunction obtained against him, because he wanted to take his son out if the abuse.

I think that as the bedroom tax forces non resident parents parents into house shares and hostels, because they cannot rent their own property, we will see an increase in child abuse cases that could of been prevented, by the other parent, or relatives, having overnight stays etc.

[Spero]

Don't the NSPCC statistics say one child a week is killed by parents or carers?

[caruthers]

Thankfully your opinion doesn't mirror the opinion of the majority Spero.

It is obvious that he was in receipt of not only emotional abuse but actual physical abuse too.

His children have been murdered and yet he's to blame?

Crass and insensitive at the very least.