About eating out and tipping

[Normalisavariantofcrazy]

I've just endured a meal with the inlaws and fil insisted on rounding the bill up - not to the nearest £10 but to the nearest £20 before splitting it out evenly between us all.

The meal was a set price the only thing that varied it was the drinks.

DH and I only had enough money for our share of the bill (tight month) and yet FIL would not accept this and nearly started a row saying we should pay the extra as it was for a tip, the service was shit tbh and didn't deserve one.

AIBU to be angry with FIL for insisting we spend more money than we had budgeted for a)because he got pissed as a fart and most of the bill was his drinks and b) for him rounding it up without asking

How do you deal with group meals and splitting the bill? This has really upset me as I'm now utterly skint

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this but the reason we tip in restaurants and not other services is because they are luxuries and not necessary.
It is about the user of the service not the worker. It is not customary to tip a nurse because some people might not be able to and it is a vital service not a choice.
When you go to eat out you are not really paying for food, you are paying for someone to make your food, the general ambiance and for someone to wait on you. It is your choice to use this luxury and that is why it is customary to tip.

Winter... but then why don't we tip the chefs? the bar staff? Why just the waiting staff?

Why is it that, in this particular industry, employers think that they don't have to pay proper wages? All other industry employers seem to be at somewhat of a disadvantage then?

I would like to see all restaurant industry employers forced to pay proper wages in line with everybody else. That way, customers can show appreciation for the staff that really go out of their way, rather than feeling obliged to 'prop up' bad salaries.

lyingwitch

Chefs are not customer facing are they? They generally get paid a salary don't they? Bar staff do sometimes get tips and in some restaurants the tips are shared through all the staff.

Ultimately you say restaurants should pay a decent wage but I believe 1 in 5 close within the first year. Profits are very hard to make in the restaurant trade and I should think labour will be one of the highest costs even at minimum wage.

Restaurants have already been forced to pay a proper wage as in minimum wage. If they were forced to pay more I shold think half the high street would close.

What's wrong with paying for service as a tip anyway?

Winter... No, they're not. Why are waiting staff different to other customer-facing staff though. It really puzzles me as I don't see the difference. Why don't waiting staff get paid properly like others?

Yes, so many restaurants closing and so many takeaways opening. Supply and demand. Perhaps the market can't stand to support so many restaurants if so many are closing? I don't think tipping waiting staff because they're not paid properly is the answer and I don't think that employers of waiting staff should get away with it.

You latest post; what's wrong with paying for service as a tip? What's wrong with adding it to the price in the first place then? Tax reasons perhaps?

No it's not to do with tax. Tips get taxed it's about it being a personal service I should think.

It's not just one transaction it's a series of transactions over hours normally. Someone waiting on your needs and delivering them. It also helps to ensure good service I should think.

Lying, restaurants close not only because of demand but because they are notoriously hard to make profit in. A restaurant can be fully booked every night and still close due to costs spiraling out of control and the very nature of perishable items.

As I said earlier wait staff are different because they are providing a luxury and personal service. It is not a necessity to eat out.

winter, thanks, I don't know anything about the restaurant business. I still think that tipping should be for very good and not mediocre service (over and above a pound or two), but then for me a tip is a higher amount. I want staff who excel to be really appreciated, not begrudging 'rounded up' because it's the 'norm'.

I'm personally aware of gritting staff who have been up tiny little streets with shovel-loads of grit because the gritter doesn't go up there and isn't scheduled to - to clear the way for a hearse so that the widow didn't have to fret about the funeral. That's exceptional service; and councils are generally slated to hell and back.

Bin men, who were accustomed to door knocking for tips have been stopped from doing this now, I think. They used to do it though, and I used to deal with staff who'd been 'on sick' coming in to do the Christmas bin collections just for the tips (which could be as much as £500 per person). Very unfair practice, now ended.

I don't begrudge paying tips at all - I want mine to be tips, proper tips that really show how much I appreciated the service. If a tip is a matter of course, it's nothing more than propping up poor wages and no indication of appreciation at all.

There are lots of luxury and personal services; eating out is nothing more special than any of them, in my opinion.

"You latest post; what's wrong with paying for service as a tip? What's wrong with adding it to the price in the first place then? Tax reasons perhaps?"

Sorry jumbled thoughts on last post.

In answer to your question above because

If the tip element was within the wages it dis-incentivises the staff to really look after the customer above and beyond and will mean service standards will drop over all as wages would be more level across all staff.

Other luxury services that get tips

Hairdressing
Beauty treatments
Taxi's
Hotel porters
Nail bars

The common denominator is that these services are luxury and deal with intimate or personal things. Feeding, hair washing waxing etc.

If he drank considerably more than others then I think the bill should have been weighted towards him. As for the tip, I think the bill should be split so as to cover the actual bill and any individual who wants to add a tip can do so.

I don't tip if the service was bad, but I do usually tip about 10% for pleasant service and a bit more for exceptional (large party/extra-attentive and excellent service etc).

Pondering your last post, Winter. It does seem to be a problem and I'm not sure what the answer is. Put prices up across the board? More restaurants close as fewer people could afford to eat out never mind tip.

What is the 'service charge' all about, if you don't mind my asking? It's stated as 'optional' but isn't really, and it's distinct from 'tips'. Where does the service charge go?

I tip hairdresser and hair washer, taxi's, haven't tipped a hall porter but not seen one either.

Beauty treatments - now that's something I haven't tipped but then it was done at my gym/spa and always by the same lady who I gave a lovely wedding cash gift to, and Yankee Candles and Bailey Liqueur at Christmas. She's setting up on her own now so I'll bring her a present each time, cash or something else. I imagine that's the same as a tip?

I stayed in a 5 star hotel recently, didn't tip at dinner because the bill was being paid with the hotel bill. Paid the hotel bill, didn't even notice or think of it but would have given a nice tip. E-mail owner to send me paypal address for tip but no reply. I feel awkward about that one.

lying
I am no expert so I am not sure where the service charge goes. I thought it went to the waiter but sometimes I ask and they say it gets shared between all the staff.

I wonder if the people on this thread who say they cannot afford to pay service would still eat out if all food prices were increased by 10% thus including the service. I think they probably would.

I think people on here who don't tip think the ideal solution would be for the restaurant to up the wages and the prices to stay the same. I'm not sure people realise the implications this would have on many (especially independent) restaurants.
I am guessing btw!

I hate going out for a meal with people who don't budget for a tip. What if teh service had been great? Maybe in some places it is 12.5%? Here it is 10%.

lying

You sound lovely and kind

Just been out for lovely Sunday lunch....lovely large country pub....young girls working quickly and efficiently, very warm and smiley with our dd 3.5.

Left a larger tip than usual after reading this thread as didnt realise so many 'non tippers' around'

Had service have been just ok would have still left a small tip

Had service have been awful would possibly have given them a few 'top tips' of a non monetary kind.

I have already responded to original Op up post. Has been an interesting thread. Especially hearing about tipping in different states across the pond.

My DS and DD both "wait on" at a local pub/restaurant. The pay is minimum wage. Trip advisor reviews generally rate the establishment as being one of the best in the area for both food and service, and we have eaten there many times and can concur with that. I asked my DCs how many people tipped, assuming it would be most customers, but they reckon less than half, which surprised me. Good service can make a meal; catering staff are generally poorly paid, and I would always tip around 10-15%, unless the service was pretty crap.

PS meant to also respond to the 'people who have done the job always tip' comments: I have waited tables but still don't always tip, and sometimes tip more and sometimes less. As a waitress I never expected tips; it's not customers' fault that the job is poorly paid. Any tip was a nice bonus and I never thought badly of those who didn't tip, apart from worrying that it meant I hadn't done my job very well.

That's nice of you, Winter but I think I'm just a bit clueless. I'd really like some 'rules'. I'm good with rules.

I also owe an apology to Lilyaldrin way back up the thread. I've read back her posts (after a good night's sleep) and I can quite see the point she was making, it was too subtle for me last night, whizzed over my head, but it was there.

On another post though...

NearTheWindmill Fri 17-Jan-14 23:01:23

"...You know, that little word with the kitchen for the good end of the sirloin, and for fiver tippers funny how one's hand could slip on the optic if they asked for a brandy (and no that wouldn't be found out when the barman had a drinks problem and was fiddling any way). And you know those miserable bastards - well sometimes their glass of red came out of the left over dregs saved up for a marinade."

1. You put the fiddling barman's job at risk for your own ends. That's thieving and no better than what he was doing.

1. You purposely gave 'dregs' to customers who'd paid for a glass of wine because, in your dishonest mind, they had failed to appreciate you.

I dread to think of the actions you took or colluded in if food was sent back.

Your behaviour was disgraceful and theft. You don't get to 'threaten' people with 'lesser standards' because you arbitrarily think they deserve it. You put your employer's business at risk too because Trading Standards would have taken a very dim view. You should have been sacked.

Lying..I think you're being a bit harsh, nearthewindmill is, sadly right. Thats the kind of shit that goes on in the industry. Thats just the way it is.

Widespread it may be, Susyb30, decent it isn't. The industry, as has been pointed out, is luxury, therefore unnecessary. Eating out would be the first of my luxuries to go, hairdresser the very, very last.

It's disgusting and disgraceful behaviour and not at all a tribute to the majority of waiting staff who are hardworking and wouldn't dream of doing this. I certainly wouldn't have boasted about it on a chatboard of customers who will hope against hope that Windmill has found an alternative, non-personal trade.

In a restaurant in Rome we left a very big tip at lunchtime and booked for the evening.

The reception at dinner was the closest thing I'll ever get to being an A-list celebrity in my life.

We were greeted like long-lost friends, moved with huge fuss twice to better tables and given free drinks and anti pasti. It was almost embarrassing. Almost. In truth that tip was probably the best money I've ever spent.

Especially when the second bottle of wine disappeared from the bill. That was 12 years ago. We go back once a year. They still remember us. Same treatment.

Yes, the waiters are robbing their employer blind and I've seen them cut customers off at the knees too. But that's not my concern.

love that story limited