To have not put make up on dd?

[selfdestructivelady]

We went to a children's birthday party Saturday. All the little girls had make up on and all the parents were saying how pretty each other's dds make up looked. Dd is 4 yo the others were aged 4-5 they had nail polish eyeshadow and lip gloss on.

It's just a bit of fun LittleBear. Not the be all and end all.

To you. Not to everyone.

It's just wrong for children to wear makeup. It encourages vanity, which needs to be squelched at all costs. Little girls need to be neat, tidy, and dressed for the weather. Firm and unflattering school uniforms are to be encouraged.
There's a time and a place for such things, and it's out of school after thirteen or so. My school in the 80s would send girls of seventeen to wash their face.
Disclosure: I'm a former Quaker (Society of Friends) who loathes sexualization of children, but who has only cats.

To the posters you are addressing.

Those of you saying that you are teaching your children not to conform are making problems for them in the future. Mark my words.

I live in a very non conformist town and the faff we had when the secondary school brought back school uniform was horrendous. It is not teaching them how to get on in the real world. Any child who wants to be a policeman/ nurse/ coastguard they have a uniform, a dress code at the very least: by encouraging the children to reject the school uniform the parents made an issue out of something that was a non issue.

Just as some of the people on this thread are doing over a little bit of lip gloss and eyeshadow. The ones worrying about chemicals and not wanting them on their children's skin are the ones who cause a problem, in the same way as children that are denied sweets are usually the ones who crave them, and go crazy on them when mummy isn't around.

A little of everything in moderation is better for well rounded individuals. Obviously keeping in the legal boundaries. I would never encourage my children to take drugs for example.

The children who are denied make up at a young age when playing dress ups are the ones who will rebel in their teens and plaster the stuff on as soon as they leave the house. The ones who have "played" with it either learn that less is more and know how to apply it properly or aren't interested by the time they reach their teens.

For the record I very rarely wear make up. And when I do it's for my benefit, because it makes me feel good, not because I want others to think I'm pretty.

My dd, at 11, is very good at applying make up. And knows what looks nice. She doesn't wear it everyday, maybe if she is going to a function or when she is performing. She has decent make up and knows that she needs to wash it off to prevent spots. She's never really seen the need to have "kiddy make up" because she had always used proper make up for festivals and shows with her dancing.

I actually agree with pictish that you can pick holes in all the role play games children play. Why are we encouraging our children to play pirates? Or soldiers? What's wrong with wantig to play at princesses? It's your insecurities and problem. Not the children's.

And I don't think that saying no to a bit of glittery make-up tat at five will doom my daughter to a life of trauma. And heaven forbid I pay attention to the bath stuff I buy.

There's no need to encourage girls to play princesses. Disney is doing that job. Maybe the pirates etc are an attempt to balance it out. I don't care if dd wants play princesses, pirates or anything.

erica are you serious? If so I find it quite disturbing that you think it's ok for girls to wear make up etc after the age of 13. Why? Do you consider them to be 'grown up' at that age? Surely if you honestly believe that make up for little ones should be avoided then they shouldn't wear it at all even as grown ups or at the very least until they are adults which 13 year olds most definitely are not. What message are you sending out saying no to make up unless you're a teenager then it's ok because....because what? You're sexually mature? Grown up? An adult? None of those things are true.

And genuinely, why is vanity a bad thing? In moderation isn't it a good thing to take pride in our appearance? I know when I'm feeling depressed my 'vanity' is the first thing to go because I don't value myself enough to care.

It's about balance. In all honesty I wouldn't put make up on my four year old for a children's party. But I wouldn't make a big thing of saying no to it when playing dress up.

My children have a rail of dress up clothes ranging from policemen, princesses, tutus, scooby do, nurses, skeletons, vampires, pirates, fairies, firemen, you name it I think they have it! At the last count I think there were about 30 outfits and they all play with pretty much all of them. As I said earlier my macho 6 year old ds loves wearing the flouncy Cinderella ball gown and has often plate the dame in the pantomimes my children insist on creating -every bloody weekend. It encourages them to use their imaginations and they love it.

I would never dream of telling my boys they couldn't be the princess or the mermaid. And I would never dream of telling the girls they couldn't be the fireman or the knight. Children playing dress up don't care about genre specifics and I see nothing wrong with them using make up in their games. Dd is particularly good at zombie and vampire make up.

So long as they are having fun, where is the harm? It's washed off properly and put away. Its not about "being pretty" it's about playing make believe.

For the record - my dd has never worn any make up to a party...but my friends dds have, and I was speaking out with them in mind as well as myself. They're good mums who feel as I do about it. It's dress up and play.

Dds adventures in make up are largely confined to the house. I did let her keep her barely visable shadow on once...to go to my friend's house on NYE. I saw no harm in it at all.

So for those of you who think I'm raising Honey Boo Boo. I'm not.

But neither am I so upclenched or influenced by the media and mumsnet I think it's the Devil's work either. If it's ok for them to pretend to be a fucking pirate, then it sure as hell is ok to pretend to be mummy too.

Oh I lie - she has worn nail varnish and glitter dust to parties. Oh. Dear. Feminism is surely unravelling as I type.

I don't think it would even occur to me to put make up on a 4 year old for a birthday party. Most of the parties my 4 year old goes to are at play centres or parks.

Emulating mummy is normal. I caught mine tottering around in my high heels earlier. Nothing Wrong with it. It's normal, developmental, kiddies playtime. Some people on this thread are very uptight. Pick your battles! That's my advice.

So many mumsnetters appear to restrict so much that one day i garuantee that their children will rebel when they hit their teens. These perfect parents are asking for trouble. My children know their boundaries. But they also know that within reason i will listen to them and take their views on board.

I don't think makeup is needful for anyone not on stage or television. Besides, there's much difference between four and thirteen. I know modern thirteen year olds can't be run so strictly as they were thirty years ago. I don't like teen in makeup, either, but have to be realistic. I live in the States, where eighteen is the age of majority. I'm shocked that English girls are allowed out overnight with boys at festivals. I'm also shocked by American coed sleepovers.

What all English girls?

Oh and fwiw I'm not English and nor is dd but there's no way on earth shed be staying out overnight at festivals with boys or otherwise as a young teenager.

Sorry, it's not very clear from the posts I've read whether the children had make up put on them as part of the party games, or if they came to the party already decked out in face paint.
If it's the former, I don't think it's too bad (says she with two boys so no experience of this! )as it's just playing at putting on make up and it can be washed off later.
If it's the latter though, I would have a problem with that.
Why the hell would any sane parent casually take their child out to parties in make-up at the age of FOUR?!
They're still more or less pre-schoolers at that age!
Teenagers yes, fair enough. Just out of nursery school is bonkers!

It seems a bit strange. I have 2 DDs and there has been no sign of make up on any friends until 10 years old (the school allows it!).

I think someone's misunderstanding what I mean by festivals. My children perform in dance competitions (also called festivals) where they perform on stage in costume and make up. Not music festivals with bands. And certainly not staying out overnight!!!

Those of you saying that you are teaching your children not to conform are making problems for them in the future. Mark my words.

in the same way as children that are denied sweets are usually the ones who crave them, and go crazy on them when mummy isn't around.

The children who are denied make up at a young age when playing dress ups are the ones who will rebel in their teens and plaster the stuff on as soon as they leave the house.

you seem very sure about this. Can you link to some evidence to back your claims up?

As I said upthread, I never played with make up as a child (perhaps because my mum didn't wear much, I don't know) and didn't start wearing it until I was around 16/17 - never plastered it on - no-one I knew did.

It's a real MN myth that if parents dare to exercise some limitations on what their children do, the end result has to be an older child who will proceed to gorge on whatever it is that they have so unfairly been denied/limited - sweets/Tv/make up/whatever. And yet my RL experience hasn't shown this at all. My only downside of being denied access to make up as a child is that I didn't know much about applying it properly, and still don't (but my mum was simply a powder and lippy woman, so she wouldn't have been much help anyway) - with that in mind I intend to take DD at an appropriate age (13/14) to have a proper make up lesson in town. And of course I will talk to her about the subject and give my reasons, should she think I'm being terribly terribly mean.

but... why is age 13/14 "appropriate" ?

mine have experimented with their own faces from an early age , they can do it so that it looks nice and it has no connection in their minds at all to adolescence, going through puberty and the whole sexualisation of the female face thing.

Personally I would have thought that for those reasons age 13/14 is precisely the wrong age...

Yes madeofstardust I agree completely that's what I was trying to say earlier

Are 6 year olds clamouring to be allowed to wear make-up, or are adults indulging their whimsy and love of all things pretty by getting them into it?

We do this to our daughters, unless it somehow comes from inside.

because that's the age that I, as her mother, have decided is a reasonable age to start thinking about make up and to have a make up lesson. In fact, if she shows no interest at that age, I wouldn't bother - but any earlier is, in my own personal book, too early. And actually, I haven't said anything about sexualisation etc - I simply don't like make up on little girls, just like I don't like earrings (even clip ons), and guess what? I don't have to! I'm capable of independent thought!

An examaple - at a 4 year old's birthday party this weekend (where no make up was in evidence, nor has it been at any party of this age I've been to), most little girls in little girl party stuff - one in a dress which (it's hard to explain) to me looked like a very adult style - not revealing or anything like that, just adult. And I didn't like it. Didn't say anything of course. Just my own opinion. I wouldn't, and won't, buy my DD a dress in that kind of style, even if she wants it. I don't have to, merely because someone else has and she wants it.

I do not have any links for you mrs O, but plenty of anecdotal evidence that I have seen with my own eyes. I am not saying that ALL children would rebel, but many do, especially when they have been denied something.

I am not saying that little girls of 6 should be encouraged to wear make up if its not of interest to them, but experimentation at a young age is not a bad thing. It's not a sexual thing (as apposed to at 13/14 when it could have those connotations) its just a fun role playing game.

The people on this thread saying its a sexual thing are projecting that attitude themselves. The children do not see it as such.

As you have said yourself, you didn't know how to put make up on. My 11 year old does. And she does a good job of it for the most part.

How do all these people feel about the use of face paints?

I don't think 13/14 is a good age, but better than preschool. I think wearing flattering clean clothes are a good thing, but makeup on four year olds is not alright.
Going to dance festivals as. You described is a wonderful experience. I've seen mentions on Mumsnet of teens going with groups of peers to Glastonbury on their own. That's much too dangerous.