...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

Of course if the obesity is caused by a medical condition, then that is a different scenario. But in the vast majority of cases, it is caused by greed and then lack of will power and motivation.

I'm overweight and yes, that's my fault and responsibility. I need to eat less and move my arse more. The NHS is for the SICK. Not for self inflicted disorders such as obesity, alcoholism or plastic surgery (because its affecting my mental health shite.)

This is why the waiting lists are so long and people are in pain waiting for hip operations etc. yes, food can be an addiction too but they need cognitive therapy to understand why they binge, corrective surgery will not take away the reason for it.

It is caused by greed.

One of the most fuckwitted comments I've ever read on MN... A gross over-simplification of a very complex issue.

Hmmm. Would those of you saying it's just greed say to an anorexic "just eat more?"

I have binge eating disorder. I go to an eating disorder support group along with anorexics and bulimics as we are all treated along the same lines. Only for some reason is less socially acceptable to be large than skinny.

I have a lot of childhood trauma I need to come terms with, as do a lot in our group. We tend to have low confidence low self esteem and fear the abilitu to change.

honestly eat less,move more just serves as another phrase that emphasises failure. We're told it's not just a matter of will power,if it was then years of battling it would just mean we have no will power and are unable to change.

many things need to happen, increase self esteem, increase in confidence, support and encouragement alongside help with food diaries.

It honestly isnt about the food and most in our group are in therapy or counseling.

Caused by greed, ok then. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about

I don't know why I read these sorts of threads but can't help myself. They just reinforce what I already know- that many people believe I am a greedy, unmotivated pig who just needs to take responsibility for myself and eat less, move more. Strangers who look at me like shite or call me names don't know that despite my size, I am taking control, seeking professional help, and have lost quite a lot of weight so far. They just see a snapshot in time which tells them nothing about what's really going on.

People who know me, know how hard I've tried over the years and can see the effort I make. Funnily enough for many years I was convinced I was just greedy and unmotivated and couldn't understand why I couldn't just sort it out. Fortunately a great nurse at my surgery decided to ask me some questions, referred my to my GP and after various investigations I was diagnosed with Binge Eating Disorder. That intervention from the NHS and subsequent treatment has been a huge help- though I'm on a huge waiting list for psychological treatment and can't afford private treatment. But I'm getting there, slowly.

One thing I have found is that there is a general lack of understanding around eating disorders, and I have had comments that I don't really have one because I don't have anorexia or bulimia. And to be fair I didn't realise that there was anything else outside of these more commonly known eating disorders either.

I don't know the story behind why some people are obese, but having been on the receiving end of some of the attitudes seen on this thread, I choose not to presume anything. Perhaps something to think about- the only times I have ever really wanted to have weight loss surgery, are after I have been called names, spat at, told I'd lose weight if I just stopped being greedy etc and have felt upset and desperate. Such unpleasant attitudes and a lack of any compassion for others only contributes to the obesity problem for many people.

My best friend is very obese. Her sister has struggled with anorexia. They were both brought up with lots of issues around food, particularly from their dad who did not want fat daughters.

My friend has lost lots of weight, but put it all back on. Because ultimately the reasons for her being very obese are much deeper. Her sister has had help from the NHS to look at her food issues. My best friend has had nothing as there is no help available for her.

YABVU and ignorant

you cant possibly tell simply by looking at someone why they are overweight. Medical conditions/drugs and treatment, mental health issues, addiction problems, pain etc.. can all have a significant impact on weight.

its a hugely complex issue for some people and its foolish for anyone to judge.

Unfortunately, while anorexia is now understood to be a disease, obesity is still judged as a moral failing.

Doesn't weightloss surgery actually save the NHS money? Reduces costs associated with diabetes and other complications associated with morbid obesity.

I agree with the OP, whatever the reason for being overweight (unless it is due to medication), it should be the adult person's responsibility to find a solution, be it by doing more exercise, learning how to cook, finding therapy to overcome the trauma, etc.

Unfortunately, I can see new generations not understanding what a healthy weight and lifestyle actually means. If a child has grown thinking that snacking every 5 minutes is okay, that having treats all the time is okay, that eating rubbish at 11am (packet of crisps) is fine, then this poor child has no chance to change in adulthood. In this case, I blame the parents.

I find it very odd that people say it's just greed.

If DC are given sweets and cakes and crisps. If they're given sugary drinks. How is that greed?

They're just being given it by adults. It can't be their responsibility.

And when they get older, they won't have developed any healthy way to be around food. And that takes a lot more to fix than self control.

who else should take responsibility otherwise?

I think I am a 'greedy' person which may sound weird for someone with a history of anorexia but seriously, it was a control issue as paramount, because I didn't think I could control my own desire for food so I implicated some pretty full on rules around it in an attempt to do so.

I'm now at a stable, normal weight and have been for maybe 10 years. I don't know why.

But the greed came from not having what I needed as a child. If you don't feel loved, or securely attached, then you will try to compensate for those awful feelings in some way and for many people it is by using food.

You can't just say someone is greedy without looking beyond that into the reasons why they have such a strong need for food.

I don't get the whole lazy and greedy thing. Over 10 years I went from a normal BMI to obese. I did this while playing county level badminton and training up to 5 times a week.

So at the start of this process I was slim and active and hence presumably not lazy and greedy in the eyes of the public.

At the end of the process I was obese and presumably lazy and greedy in the eyes of the public.

But nothing was different in my day to day behaviour at all! I was the same person doing the same things....

Do you know just how 'greedy' you have to be to become obese after 10 years? An apple a day over your calorie balance.....massive fucking greed right there...

I am slim again now but still have the same fundamental problem - if I eat till I don't feel hungry then stop, I will have over eaten by about 1 apples worth per day. If I want to stay the same weight I have to under-eat with respect to what my body things is right.

An adult should be able to ask for help , but i think with some people there are so many complex issues regarding food , plus their low esteem and self loathing , that it can be difficult to make that decision . Plus who do you go to for help in the first instance ?

It is up to the individual
It isn't as simple as that I would imagine
I am not talking from experience!
They can't just stop eating

I think that there's often more to obesity than simply greed and laziness. And I'd agree that adults have a responsibility to try and look after their own health, although this is sometimes easier said than done.

But, I disagree with the OP's statement about it being unreasonable to expect the NHS to fund weight loss surgery.

Weight loss surgery - if given to morbidly obese patients who are ready to tackle their diet and lifestyle issues - saves the NHS money in the long run, because the patients given the weight loss ops end up much less likely to need treatment for chronic health conditions associated with obesity (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, arthritis).

Sirzy well I know my Dad and alot of his friends are overweight/obese because they drink too much/ eat badly.

The answer to you question is YES - I do think most (clearly not all) people who are obese just either 1. have little understanding of good/bad food (for which there is increasingly advice available) or 2. are choosing at the moment to eat badly rather than try to loose weight. That is not saying they are bad (i've never said it's immoral to be fat) but I CANNOT believe that the majority of people who are over weight have an actual illness, whether mental or physical.

I thought my post was very measured actually.

I just find it tiring that every post that even mentions people being overweight resulting in multiple messages about how some people (yes some) cannot help being obese.

Clearly I mean lose weight, not loose.

I really recommend Susie Orbach's book 'Fat is a feminist issue' she has some fascinating things to say about when obesity isn't related to mental illness but is still complicated and problematic to sort out.

I was an obese child, then a skinny bulimic teen, then a very obese adult. It has taken me a good ten years to figure out my food issues, despite them not being related to mental illness. It takes time, information and a 'light bulb' type moment.

We have such a messed up attitude to food and women's bodies that it is more surprising to me that anyone maintains a healthy weight in a healthy way rather than being surprised that some women are obese.

And the fat shaming hurts all if us. Cut it out.

Your thread title is unreasonable as is your failure to realise that many people have emotional issues which need to be addressed before they can lose weight.

Having said that though, I wish my mum would realise that unless she gets some weight and really properly commits to losing weight, she is unlikely to survive to see her grandchildren grow up.

She needs to lose 10 stone plus to reach the top end of a healthy BMI but it is such an overwhelming challenge, she cannot commit to it so she does WW for a couple of months, loses a stone and then puts it back on plus extra lbs.

drat, I meant mum needs to get some help

If a person chooses weight loss surgery, are they not taking responsibility for their health by accessing services provided by the NHS (and privately of course if they go down that route)? Going to the doctor to ask for help, often having to demonstrate some sort of weight loss in advance of being granted surgery, committing to a life of major dietary changes post op (whether they are able to achieve this is in reality is something else). Sounds to me like these are the actions of a person desperately trying to take control of their weight problem.

I think a more appropriate title for the thread might have been 'AIBU- to expect obese people to pay for their own weight loss surgery?'