...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

Mental health conditions have always existed..... Yet obesity (as an epidemic) is relatively new.... How come?

Binge eating disorder is a mental health issue with deep seated causes. Even with the best mental health care it is difficult to treat.

If someone is obese then at some point they coukd end up costing the NHS an awful lit ir money..., as do smokers, alcoholics, heavy drinkers, some heart patients who have eaten a crap diet and smoked all their lives.

If there is a physical treatment to reduce the individual's weight and prevent the later issues and costs then it's a no brainer. Far cheaper to do a £5000 op now than spend years and many more £1000s later on treating the resulting illnesses.

Joules - because now food is cheap and easily accessible, especially crap food. The same MH condition might have manifested in a different way at another time.

I just love how fat people are demonised because they have mental health issues. You wouldnt be nasty or call depresses people names, would you? Why are overweight people fair game?

QuintessentialShadows, yes that's right, it is a personal choice isn't it? I am of the same mind about this.

It is my choice and if I want to eat less then I will. However, if I want to eat more and the consequence of this it to become obese then I shouldn't expect 'help' from outside agencies. It is within my power to help myself. It begins and ends with me.

Couthy The first two words of your reply are not necessary and offensive. As regards your main comment, my opening statement was to start a discussion about people who make a choice to eat more than they need and become obese over time, then want someone else to deal with it. No one else can deal with it, only the obese person.

steff, that's a good point about smoking. That too is a lifestyle choice. If you start a particular behaviour that is not healthy for you, whose ultimate responsibility is it to stop that behaviour?

funky, that's interesting about your friend. I wondered the same thing about these ops. If you don't voluntarily make the changes to eat less and more healthy foods in the long term, then surely these ops are a waste of time.

There was a tv programme on the other week which covered what happens when these ops go wrong. It was sobering stuff.

Elbow: so do all obese people have MH issues?
I'm sure not all drug users or the weekend drunks all have MH issues.

So everyone who is overweight has 'mental health issues'?

I doubt it

And binge eaters..... What are they choosing to 'binge' on?

When I was fatter than I am now (a size 16), I was technically obese thanks to the bmi charts!

Real morbid obesity however is, IMO, a mental health issue.

Not all, no, but the bigger a person is, the more likely they are to have MH issues. Do you really think we dont know how big we are? and that we wouldnt love to be thinner and healthier? That eating fattening foods doesnt help? Believe me, we know. I wouldnt tell an anorexic to just eat more, so why just tell me to eat less? Why think its that simple?

What we need is much more help and support for people who are wanting to make changes. Much more easily accessible advice (proper advice not rubbish like the NHS smart changes) and help to change lifestyle and tackle any deeper issues which are contributing.

The support for tackling obesity at the moment is pretty much non-existent yet people are constantly judged for being unable to change something which is a massive part of their lifestyle alone.

I have been lucky I have been able to tackle my obesity but it's still a daily battle, I still want to comfort eat - and occasionally do - I have found a charity who have a fantastic Facebook page to provide support for people are are struggling with obesity and just having that minimal support helps people so much.

Weightloss ops should not be funded by the NHS.
Help with changing lifestyle habits and any MH issues should as these can save the NHS money in the long run (in much the same was as stopping smoking does)

Weightloss operations solve nothing really unless the underlying eating and lifestyle habits are changed too.

Joules your quote "....yet obesity (as an epidemic) is relatively new.... How come?..."

Well, first think you can do it take a look at about some programmes that were on tv last year; 'The Men Who Made Us Fat' and 'The Men Who Made Us Thin'. Shockingly depressing stuff, but shows clearly how the obesity crisis in the western world has blossomed since the 70's.

Elbow you are missing the point of the thread.

You can't just say though that "it's my choice and you can help yourself"

That has to be from someone who's never been through it or seen what people go through. The bigger you get, the harder it is to ecxercise as your body can't take the increased weight. You loose your confidence become miserable and not in a place where you are thinking clearly about the choices you are making.

You may be mentally stable and aware of what you need to do to start with. But I very much doubt you would remain that clear thinking.

It's not unreasonable to expect help. And in certain cases the op would be a good idea. BUT unless the health issues are dealt with and the mental state tackled the op is merely putting a band aid on a broken leg.

No one should ever be denied the help they need. Just because it's "self inflicted" doesn't mean they shouldn't be helped. That could be your mother or your son or sister......

What CouthyMow said with some medical conditions make it very difficult to cook from scratch and exercise.

Would you tell an alcoholic that it was their choice and they should just stop drinking? Or would they be encouraged to accept proffessional help to help them battle through their addiction?

I don't think I am. Like I said, you wouldnt tell an anorexic that they just need to eat more, without providing any support or counselling or whatever it is they need to get better. So I am saying telling an obese person to just stop eating so much, without support or counselling etc is the same thing.

I agree about the operations though. Just not the rest.

Yes, good point raised about telling an anorexic to eat more. Aren't there changes in the brain which alter their perception of their bodies and thus their eating.

Also there are addiction issues with smoking, drinking and eating sugar. So, although willpower comes into it, it is a bit more complex than just determination.

But in the end the independent adult has to do it mostly themselves.

You are probably right for most people. Obviously there will be some with genuine health/ mental health problems. But could predict the thread would focus on fact a minority can't help themselves...

So mim do you think other people chose to be obese? Do you think they are happy to struggle with day to day life? Or do you think your judging something based on little infortmation if you think it's just a minority of people who are obese/morbidly obese who have much wider issues with regards to food?

Some people who are obese will have mental health issues and some will be on medication that cursed weight gain, or that makes it harder to lose weight. But that doesn't mean everyone who needs to lose weight will have those problems.

Some people do just eat too much of the wrong thing and don't do enough exercise, and too many excuses are made. Not everyone who is overweight needs counselling, the majority just need willpower.

Funny how smokers never seem to have these excuses made for them despite the fact that they often smoke as a way to help control anxiety or because they had unstable home life that caused them to start smoking at a young age which then led to an addiction. Smokers just get told they are selfish, yet the issues are the same.

Stopping smoking or losing a lot of weight are both things that take up a lot of mental energy and willpower that some people just don't have to spare because life gets in the way, yet one group has excuses made for them and the other gets vilified.

Sandra Aamodt: Why dieting doesn't usually work:

www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work.html

Sit down, take your judgey pants off and have a watch of this.

Tabby in MY case. And yours. But you can not generalise a whole population based on Yourself!

Not all binge eating stems from childhood trauma or medical issues it must be recognised that some fat people are fat because they eat too much and it is that simple.

I agree with you op.

I ate too much because I liked food, I love food - it was a comfort thing, it was a convenience thing - I absolutely wasted my 20's and thirties being unhappy because I was a size 22 and never really put the effort in. I would moan - I swear I even prayed to be thin. I went to weight watchers - but didn't commit really, same with slimming world. I looked at those crappy magazines with headlines like " I lost 4stone" and thought - this time next year that slim lady could be me - I never really committed

Then when I was about 38 I just decided - like a switch I AM going to do this

no one is going to derail me, I will not collude with my husband in eating that pizza - because its easier am I was tired after a day at work, kids issues, money issues anything at all. I will not have a piece of toast because its easier, I will not have a bowl of cereal for supper.

and once everyone at work and everyone at home got used to it - they stopped offering me crisps and biscuits and shit sugary food

I sticked to it, I am the person on the outside I always wanted to be and that was down to me and me only.

I have spent huge amounts of time with a girl at work, taking her through it, sending her recipes, but shes just not got the commitment, and I'm not going to do it anymore - I do have huge amounts of sympathy, society does judge you

I remember specifically being laughed at by the staff in a KFC, pointing at the fat woman whilst she was eating

buying clothes a nightmare - couldn't go into normal shops - life was miserable - life is always going to throw shit your way, always, and being fat made it harder for me, so I changed that