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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

320 replies

Tabby1963 · 13/01/2014 07:20

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

OP posts:
Tabby1963 · 17/01/2014 23:20

Goodness, have a look at this article that deals with 'brain tweaking', it is from the eatingless website (I've mentioned before). Really interesting, and mentions a couple of books to read if you want further information. eatingless.com/articles/brain-tweaking/

Jake, sounds like you are on to a winner Smile and you will be eating better portions without even realising.

OP posts:
frugalfuzzpig · 19/01/2014 09:17

We got smaller bowls for the DCs - ironically they came with their Easter eggs a couple of years ago! But they are plenty for cereal. When DH uses a bigger bowl for them (if we are behind on the washing up :o) he will still fill it so we try and stick to their little ones. My mum bought some cute little melamine plates on holiday so we use them for the DCs' dinners now. It's plenty. I have to remind DH (tends to be a 'feeder' due to growing up neglected/abused/starved) that a child's stomach is only the size of their fist apparently.

I have only learned to leave food on my plate in the last few years. It was a total epiphany. It only happened because my second baby was huge (I had a negative glucose tolerance test at 28wks but the doctor thought I may have developed GD after that) and in the second half of pregnancy I literally didn't have the room anymore.

Thankfully the ability to go against my 'training' (and that's what it is, when you're brought up to clear your plate no matter what) has stayed with me since then and even in a restaurant I remind myself that even though leaving food you've paid for is a waste of money, it would also be a waste to put it in my body when I don't need it and it might make me feel bloated and sluggish.

I still find DH praising the DCs for clearing their plates though which I want to put an end to.

Tabby1963 · 19/01/2014 10:00

frugal, I found myself nodding when reading about your 'training'. It is incredibly difficult to resist finishing a meal when I have actually had enough, particularly when chatting away and not really paying attention to what I'm eating. Usually nowadays I will wrap leftovers like chips or a piece of steak or chicken in a napkin and use for the evening meal/breakfast next day. I recommend doing omelettes :), they are great with any leftover bits added to them.

When DH uses a bigger bowl for them (if we are behind on the washing up grin) he will still fill it so we try and stick to their little ones.

This is such an important piece of knowledge, frugal, and the popcorn study I mentioned further up the thread proves that if you fill the bowl (whatever size), you will eat it all.

Good luck with not commenting on your DCs clearing their plates :D.

OP posts:
Atlanta8 · 19/01/2014 10:17

Should we make anorexic people take responsibility for what they dont eat?

fatlazymummy · 19/01/2014 11:02

Yes, ultimately Atlanta. No one gets force fed. Functioning adults are responsible for their own nutrition, as they are with other aspects of their personal care.

CrohnicallySick · 19/01/2014 11:35

Here's something I find interesting about DD. she's always been fed on demand- first breastfeeding, then BLW. She has never been praised or encouraged to clear her plate- only for trying a new food. In fact, i try to make sure she always has enough to eat that she does leave some and is praised for knowing when she's full.

She has naturally fallen into a pattern of eating 3 huge meals, but rarely asks for a snack in between. I do worry about the amount she can eat in a meal- she's 1 (though big for her age) and can eat for example 2 weetabix for breakfast, or for dinner she might eat an adult portion of fish and veg, but not many potatoes, maybe 1/4 of a jacket spud. Or she might eat all the potato and leave the meat. She will leave a pudding if she's truly full and doesn't really have a sweet tooth anyway. I think the amount she eats balances out over the day- one day she ate 2 1/2 weetabix for breakfast! But only had 1/4 sandwich and an inch long piece of banana for lunch.

On the one hand I have the HV telling me about 'me sized portions' but then I worry that if I interfere and limit the amount she can eat she will get into the habit of always clearing her plate and forget how to eat until she's no longer hungry.

OrangeFizz99 · 19/01/2014 11:39

Oh forget about hvs. Just fed your child as she and you are happy with in terms of portion and think more about WHAT she's eating.

Tabby1963 · 19/01/2014 12:38

Well said, mummy.

Atlanta, best read the whole thread as this has already been covered.

OP posts:
Bunbaker · 19/01/2014 13:21

"Should we make anorexic people take responsibility for what they don't eat?"

I think that is a different issue. You are making the assumption that all overweight people have eating disorders. Some do, many don't. Some have health issues that cause the problem, some just eat too much simply because they enjoy their food (I include myself in that category)

LovelyBath · 19/01/2014 14:10

It is a bit scary the NHS funding these ops as they can be so risky. I have seen the results when they can go wrong. A lady I knew died after having such an op. She got a terrible infection from the op possibly due to obesity causing her to have a weakened immune system. The NHS had paid for the op in a private hospital then had to pick up the pieces when it all went wrong. She had several small children- tragic.

Tabby1963 · 19/01/2014 14:33

lovelybath :(

OP posts:
BaconAndAvocado · 19/01/2014 17:11

functioning adults are responsible for their own nutrition

To me, this is at the crux of any debate about obesity. If you don't want to be overweight, don't bloody well eat so much.

When I was overweight it was because I ate too much. I had no one to blame but myself.

Maybe portion sizes at restaurants etc are getting bigger but it doesn't mean we have to finish the lot!

FestiveSpiritedwolf · 21/01/2014 11:33

If only it was that simple. Hmm Angry

Overweight people very frequently do 'take responsibility' for what they eat. What do they do when they decide to do something about losing weight? Usually they decide to go on a diet or some other programme of 'healthy eating'.

Perhaps they go around the supermarket and switch to foods labelled as 'healthy', 'low fat' etc. Unfortunately these labels can be very misleading, the foods may be low in fat but high in sugar, or maybe just ever so slightly healthier than the regular version, but still not really an appropriate choice - maybe a 'healthy choice' ready meal.

Maybe they decide to try the latest popular diet. Maybe they lose a bit of weight. But then they put it on again plus a few pounds and blame themselves for not having enough 'will power', so do it again and again and end up heavier than before and with added low self esteem from the repeated failures. These diets have HUGE failure rates, which is always put down to character flaws in those who follow them, rather than accepting that they are just unsustainable for most people.

Ah, but maybe somebody tells them that yes, those diets don't work, why don't you go to one of the slimming clubs, they are more about changing your eating habits for life. Maybe they go an lose some weight, but again after 5 years the weight is back on again because for most people they don't work in the longer term.

So maybe our overweight person, who is now obese, goes to their GP for advice and are given the standard government Change 4 Life advice (backed by their partners the confectionary manufacturer, Nestle) about healthy eating - switch to low fat (hidden sugar) foods.

I sincerely believe that many overweight people have "taken responsibilty" for their weight more than most people. I have watched my mother struggle with her weight for my whole life, she's been on so many diets, tried so much to control her body and appetite. I don't have an impression of her as a greedy or lazy person. If anything she put on most of the weight whilst being a busy mum with five children to look after and a full time stressful job and suffering from depression. I don't remember ever seeing her stuff her face though I accept she may have done when I wasn't around. And yes, after years of failed dieting she has had bariatric surgery on the NHS. She was so embarassed about it that she didn't tell me or my siblings what she was going into hospital for. Its not cheating to lose weight that way, and its not an easy route. It hasn't been 100% successful in my mum's case, but it is successful for many people. She's trying to go back to her post-op good diet now.

Campaigning for easy to use labels on food, for manufacturers to be more responsible, to reduce food advertising particuarly to children, for the government to make sure its advice is evidence based... these things won't take away the responsibility on the person putting food into their mouth. Of course it can't be done without them, but as a society we can try and make it easier for them to make better choices, rather than set up an environment for them to fail in even when they are trying their best. We ALL like to think that we aren't influenced by advertising, but if it didn't work they wouldn't spend so much money on it. These companies make money out of selling us too much food and diets that don't work.

I like the video linked to earlier which suggested that eating plenty of fruit and veg, taking regular exercise, not smoking and drinking only in moderation delivering health outcomes for everyone regardless of their weight. It gives a bit of hope, since losing weight permanently seems to be a long shot.

I have excess weight myself which is reducing a bit now that I am trying to eat better and exercise more. I don't know if I'll ever have a healthy BMI, though I'd like to. It's blooming difficult trying to find a way of doing it which won't result in bouncing back to my original weight (or higher!). I do have thyroid issues, and have had some mental health issues that meant I was a bit crap at self care. I'm trying to being mindful about what I'm eating, and to eat smaller quantities of more nutritious food.

I do think that people who have excess fat should be treated with respect, and given as much evidence based information - and if necessary - treatment as possible. I don't like the idea of surgery personally, and I hope I'm young and healthy enough to do it without that, but for people whose mobility is restricted so much that they cannot exercise it may be a reasonable option. I've also heard of success with treating Type 2 diabetes by putting people on the post operation diet, without the surgery.

I guess that describing people as greedy and lazy is just a less kind, observing from the outside way of saying Eat Less, Move More. But it is a really savage attack on the personalities of people who are struggling with contradictory diet advice, a world full of very high calorie food which requires very little preparation and can therefore be eaten on auto pilot (rather than mindfully). 'Will power' is hard to sustain in the long term, and when it disappears the person is left with habitual and emotional eating, susceptible to advertising and basic impulses to eat something now.

Telling people they are greedy or lazy doesn't give them the confidence and self esteem to look after their bodies. It just pushes them into that emotional eating cycle of eating something for short term comfort, adding to the problem. It doesn't give them information about how to eat less or how to move more, it just tells them that their character is fundementally flawed rather than them being a human being capable of a different pattern of behaviour.

If fat shaming worked we'd all be slim, nobody (well almost nobody, sumo wrestlers excepted) wants to have lots of fat.

If you saw me on the street as a size 22 you might well think I was a greedy, lazy fat person, if that is what you are inclinded to think about people who have my body shape. If you told me so I'd laugh in your face. Not because I don't know I have fat, but because I have lost 6 stone already, you have no idea whether someone is being greedy and lazy and putting on weight, or being moderate and active and losing weight just by looking at them or weighing them on one occasion.

Ev1lEdna · 21/01/2014 11:42

Just wanted to say I rolled my eyes when this thread bobbed to the surface of AIBU again but it was worth it for that great post Festive and well done.

Lifeisaboxofchocs · 21/01/2014 11:45

oh goodness, this thread makes me so sad. sad that so many people spend so much of their time thinking about food and their weight.

Ok, my family and I are all very slim. we enjoy food, but very moderately, and it leaves so much time to think about and enjoy other stuff in life.

if you don't have the motivation to do it yourself, despite the fact that there are clearly SO SO SOmany positives to not being obese, then I think you just have to suffer the consequences. Harsh, but until such time as diseases such as cancer are wiped out, then not a penny should be spent on operations such as this. The exception being if obesity is as a result of a medical condition.

BaconAndAvocado · 21/01/2014 11:48

It's no good talking about diets.

They Don't Work.

I've tried them all over the years.

Just eat less. It really is that simple.

GoodnessIsThatTheTime · 21/01/2014 11:48

Festive, really well explained.

I struggle a lot with even knowing what is a normal relationship with food. So much of what you have written rings true for me. Especially not knowing what advice to follow. Low fat stuff all had added sugar, lack of energy makes time spent prep hard. The constant feeling of wanting to eat to satisfy some need ..

and yes if itcwas just simple to eat less I'd have done it! Similarly I hear diet groups and plans don't work.... But want instead?

Well done onbthe 6 stone. I have 6 stone to lose and it frightens me. Any advice or hints very much welcomed!

Lifeisaboxofchocs · 21/01/2014 11:49

There seems to be a very strong link between obesity and not being able to take responsiblilty for onself. Festive, your description showed obese peope in a very passive light. Not able to read bloody labels and make their own interpretation of whether good or bad for them. if this is the truth, then what can i say?

BaconAndAvocado · 21/01/2014 11:51

lifeisaboxofchocs your thread makes complete sense.

Ev1lEdna · 21/01/2014 12:05

if you don't have the motivation to do it yourself, despite the fact that there are clearly SO SO SOmany positives to not being obese

Ok, now I'm rolling my eyes again.

Not able to read bloody labels and make their own interpretation of whether good or bad for them. if this is the truth, then what can i say?

and again.

Lifeisaboxofchocs · 21/01/2014 12:10

Ev1, let me guess, you are obese? the reason i presume this is linked to my previous comment. There just seems to be so many excuses. Just like you did, slim people roll our eyes when we hear the excuses.

Ev1lEdna · 21/01/2014 12:22

Wow you're a piece of work. Nice assumption. Fairly unpleasant approach.

No. I rolled my eyes at your disingenuous response to this thread. The 'oh my goodness - I've never had to worry about this because I am slim (can you repeat that one again? one more post g'wan you know you want to) but I know so much better what people go through' response.

It is a glib response given without thought and a whole heap of blame and if it was possible I was incorrect in that opinion of your first post, your second clarified it for you.

slim people roll our eyes when we hear the excuses.

Not all of them love, you don't know all of them well enough to dole out that profundity.

Ev1lEdna · 21/01/2014 12:23

"clarified it for me not you

Lifeisaboxofchocs · 21/01/2014 12:29

[HMM]

Lifeisaboxofchocs · 21/01/2014 12:32

My error, Hmm.
I have offended you clearly. I don't want to offend anyone. I just find it frustrating and also sad that there seems to be an absense of.... I am fat because I overate and now I am stuck in a rut because I am struggiling to lose it. Instead so many allude to physical or mental illnesses. And in my opinion, not a penny should be spent on obesity until other 'proper', yes 'proper' illnesses are overcome.