...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

The cheapest food is in the fruit and veg aisle.

We cannot blame 'the economy'.

A piss poor understanding of food production, seasons and cooking especially compared to our European neighbours we can blame.

This ignorance is particularly well demonstrated by the pasty fat people featured in the media because there was a snail in their salad. Shock horror.

Not everything resorts to a mental health issue ffs!!

I am overweight (although not obese) because I am lazy. I couldn't be bothered to make food so I would buy prepacked sandwiches or takeaways. I DO have mental health issues (anxiety and OCD) which do not in any way relate to my weight. I am doing slimming world, have been doing it for two weeks now and it's a start.

I agree that sometimes binge eating can relate to mental health and if so it should be sorted from that side of things first however from the amount of people I know who have lost 3st plus it is possible to lose lots of weight yourself and if you are able to then you should take responsibility for that!

Totally agree OP, I've just managed to lose a stone after 4 years of trying, not an easy task. that brings me out of obese into overweight. I ride horses and work outdoors, hard physical graft. I don't sit on my backside all day in an office eating pies and am still mystified as to why I piled on the weight like that.

It may just have been the editing, but I did feel that the woman came across as expecting others to sort out her weight problem without her having to take any responsibility whatsoever that her actions may have played a part in her getting to 27 stone at 27 years old. As one who has struggled with her weight most of my adult life, I personally have a problem with her attitude towards her excess weight being someone else's problem.

Most PCT's expect a BMI in excess of 40 to qualify for bariatric surgery and anyone who doesn't take responsibility for their problem or understand the need to change their eating and exercise habits doesn't get funding.I know a couple of people who've had different types of bariatric surgery and don't know anyone who thinks having large amounts of your intestines removed is the easy way to lose weight who has actually survived the psychological assessment.

I'm sure there are people who are overweight who don't take responsibility for their size but in my experience it isn't those who have gone through bariatric surgery if thats what some people are implying.

In fact those I know feel desperately ashamed of being so obese and needing surgery. I don;t meet people who blithely refuse to admit that they are the size they deserve perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.

My experience is that those of us who are overweight feel that we are responsible for our weight and that we are bad people as a result. Often tending towards low self esteem and .... comfort eating!

orangefizz that is total and utter bull.

eg. tesco value apples 90p for 4 = 315 kcal per pound.
tesco value potatoes 1.18 fro 2.5kg = 1737 kcal per pound

eg. tesco value jam 29p for 454g = 3914 kcal per pound
tesco value biscuits 35p for 400g = 5657 kcal per pound

So the cheapest stuff is in the jam/biscuit aisle by a factor of 10 ish.

I sort of agree that people need to take responsibility for their own weight but not everyone can do this without needing help whether that is knowing what's healthy, portion sizes, or finding ways to not use food in an emotional way.

I'm currently dieting (low carb) and am doing OK but I wouldn't have been able to do this 2 years ago when my marriage fell apart as I used food to make me feel better. I probably was greedy in that I ate too much but to me at that time it made me feel better and got me through the day.

I think weight loss surgery should be the last resort after trying to lose weight by other methods with help.

She needs to lose 10 stone plus to reach the top end of a healthy BMI but it is such an overwhelming challenge, she cannot commit to it

Skaen this is why bariatric surgery worked better for morbidly obese people because the amount of weight they have to lose is just not viable except in a vanishingly small number of cases of mostly younger people.

I beleive I read somewhere (but can't remember) that the has been a cost benefit exercise to compare the costs of surgery to the reduction of treatment costs to the NHS or diabetes and heart trouble, increased income from people moving off benefits and getting back into work etc vs increased life expectancy which costs the NHS more money. I seem to recall it was cost effective but I might have imagined that.

I think weight loss surgery should be the last resort after trying to lose weight by other methods with help. it is under NHS guidelines. Not so much if you go private I guess.

I've just watched the film of the lady on BBC news and I disagree that she was suggesting her weight was other people's problem. I actually found it hard to watch- she came across as feeling sad, desperate, and scared for the future. She quite clearly said she blames herself for ending up like this.

Her point about GPs not helping is interesting. Many surgeries offer weight loss clinics, and in some areas you can be referred to specialist weight management services- but this provision varies massively. I lived most of my life in an area where the only support available was a printed 'diet sheet' and the offer of being weighed weekly- that may work for some but doesn't remotely begin to address any issues other than a lack of knowledge about calorie controlled diets. When I moved to another area, there was an excellent range of services which I have used, found really helpful and have helped me to start regaining control of my weight. I think wider availability of NHS funded weight management services is an entirely sensible idea.

cantbelieve - my GP surgery were also very helpful and although they don;t run their own weight management clinic they were happy to refer me to an NHS one.

IMO people should just think of their own diet and weight and butt out of others.

Surely then everyone should be responsible for what they eat. Let's ignore the complex issue of food deserts, access, media, industry, genetics, medical issues, and simplify it to just personal responsibility. Far easier to attack people that way.

My partner is quite overweight. He also has mechanical damage to the spine, knees, shoulder which predate his weight and an entire family culture around comfort eating. His treatment by medical professionals who now blame everything on his weight and refuse to look into things further (frightening with growing evidence of so many people dying not from obesity related illnesses but other conditions that doctors overlooked due to bias) as well as people in the street. We've literally been followed around with our children by people hurling vile abuse at him.

I am at the lower end of the weight spectrum and have always been there. No one ever tells me to be responsible with what I'm eating, even when I admit during a particularly bad time to living on pizza and cake. My medical problems have never been blamed on my weight or diet (even when very anaemic, it was simply "you must be eating well, we'll give you supplements"). My poor appetite has been repeatedly called a blessing even by medical professionals while I was pregnant. Even as a woman with disabilities, people treat me with far more sympathy than they do my partner who has had medical professionals admit to his face that they weren't going to treat him as they thought he 'did it to himself'.

I honestly have given up caring whether a fat person is healthy and care more about how people are being treated. We are surrounded by industries and systems that thrive on pitting people against one another, creating standards to value people by and blaming others for their faults and causing problems ignoring that the systems been built to be rigged. And when current evidence shows that shaming overweight people for their weight most often causes them to GAIN more weight, the efforts are counterproductive at the start and dehumanizing at the least.

Volestair: "…psychological problems they self-medicate with comfort eating…[or] an abnormally high appetite…"?

So basically, they just eat too much. Yes, some few (and it really is rare) people take medication that causes them to gain weight but they really are a minority. I'm overweight, and I take full responsibility for it. I actually eat healthily (all organic food, about 60% of my diet made up by fruit and vegetables, no processed food, all cooked from scratch etc) but I drank far too much wine, eat out too often and tend to eat far too much cheese. But that's my fault. And blaming it on bereavements I suffered when I was young, stress from my job etc won't help me.

Until people start taking responsibility for their own decisions, the NHS is just going to become more and more overburdened.

There are many many different reasons for obesity and some of them are quite complex.

But sadly the fact remains that even with medical intervention, if people don't learn to commit and help themselves, they will die before their time.

Yanbu, it seems as though it's someone else's problem for people getting fat, aside from medical reasons. If you don't want to be overweight there is a wealth of information and support , but only if people are willing to commit to it.

Addicts will always find someone/something to blame for their addiction.

We can either be the sickness creator or the health creator, we need to be accountable to ourselves.

It's not just about one person "sticking at it"

It's something the whole family needs to get on board with.

What if the person affected isn't the one in charge of the shopping or the cooking. It's made a million times harder when everyone else brings home sweets and cakes etc.

Some people don't have supportive families and Infact have husbands/wives who mock or deliberately try and make it difficult for them.

The cheapest food is in the fruit and veg aisle.

Bollocks! how much F&V would you need to meet yiour daily energy requirements?
Bakery foods are the cheapest!

Yabu - not read it all - but

Alcoholics should just stop drinking
Smokers should just stop smoking
Drugs users should just stop using drugs

Those doing sports shouldn't hurt themselves

Blah blah blah

Bollocks! how much F&V would you need to meet yiour daily energy requirements?
Bakery foods are the cheapest!

Its not just energy though is it, what about nutrition? Plenty of people are overweight but malnourished because they eat too much rubbish and not enough fruit and veg, because they 'don't like it'

Foods like porridge and pulses are more calorie dense, but nutritious and very cheap. In season fruit and veg are very cheap.

Porridge can be prepared using hardly any fuel, using a microwave and costs pennies.

Canned pulses are cheap and don't need extensive preparation. A very cheap curry can be made with spices (curry powder costs pennies) and tinned tomatoes/onions/chick peas etc or lentils.

Some people have mental health issues or disabilities, but at least as many are greedy and lazy and I count myself in this group. I am not obese as I am quite active and eat well some of the time, but there are plenty of times when I eat too much pizza, chocolate and booze.

volestair: Your point just backs mine up. The incidence rate of Prader-Willi in the UK is circa 0.00006%. So, you know, rare. My whole point is that there are obviously some rare conditions that cause obesity but they are few and far between. The majority of people do not suffer from them. And I'm so tired of people self-diagnosing themselves as having "issues" that they then use to excuse their bad habits.

On a very subjective level (just to match you there), there are no deep-seated reasons why I'm overweight at the moment. I just eat too much rich food when I go out and too much cheese at home. I like food and good wine. Not everything needs to be the result of a massive trauma you know. Some of us just like to indulge in the things we enjoy a little too much and, as long as I'm not morbidly obese, costing the NHS money because of it and as I don't blame anyone else apart from myself for the amount I weigh, I don't see a problem with it. I'll lose weight again next year after the baby but for now it's not an issue.

I can see where you're coming from OP, but I'm guessing when people stop taking responsibility or appear to then something has gone wrong some where and that's why they ask for help.

In theory I don't see it any different from addictions as people consume substances that damage their health and when they are ill they end up facing doctors etc. for help sometimes help is given without their consent too.

The only difference with food is that it is actually essential for living. The problem could come from poor diet, excess and/or other health related things.

So basically people should be more responsible for maintaining the best possible health they can in general. But it's something that needs to be taught or modelled which isn't always that straight forward.