...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

Sure. But there's no doubt that the fact that an addict has the option, however unattractive it may be, to never touch cigarettes or drugs again is a distinct advantage over food addiction. You can cut off friends who are users, etc.

Whatever the multiple and complex cause of obesity, blaming is not a constructive approach.

I think the more interesting question is looking at the reasons why so many people have issues around food, whether eating too much or too little.

In my opinion it is largely due to modern society's obsession with body image, driven mainly by advertising aimed at wealth creation above all else.

There is a vast difference between someone who likes their food and could do with losing a couple of stone and someone who is addicted to eating, who is double their healthy weight and who has been battling their addiction for their whole life.

Telling an addict, who is quite clearly losing the battle against their addiction, that they have only themselves to blame and they should expect no help or support, does not in anyway help solve the problem. In fact, it is likely to push them further into the patterns of eating that cause the problem.

Please note that I am not saying that all fat people are addicts or suffering from MH issues. But the people who weight 22, 24, 27 stone who get regularly shown on TV whenever obesity crops up are really not typical of the general obese population and they probably do have issues that require additional support.

It would have been much more useful if BBC Breakfast had found a 16 stone man and asked him about his obesity - it would have been much more typical of the obese population in the UK.

Look we're all broken in some way or other. Those who are not broken enough to need help, that's great. Well done and how bloody lucky and wonderful.

The rest of us have issues and that means we sometimes need help.

I agree it's personal responsibility that will solve things like this but if someone is unable to take it, for whatever reason, then do we just let them die?

I'm not obese btw. I was anorexic and I didn't die because I took responsibility for it and sorted it out myself. But I had to reach a point where no one else could, or would, help me, in order to do that.

I am still broken though - it left me with various physical issues that I will always need assistance with from the health service. I would really like to have that assistance, if possible. Though I understand it's my own behaviour that caused them.

It would be very painful if I couldn't access help. I'm not sure how we should approach this but I don't think leaving people to suffer and die is necessarily the answer.

Although I agree to some extent, I don't think all overweight people can take responsibility for their weight (as mentioned, mental health issues, medication issues)

However, there will also be a great amount of people who are overweight simply because they love 'bad' food too much. Even though I have hypothyroidism, I would still class myself as one of them as I know that what I usually eat will make me fat, but because I enjoy it, it doesn't stop me eating it. I wouldn't, however, go running off (well, if i'm honest, I can't run anywhere) demanding weight loss surgery purely because I don't want to make the lifestyle changes that would lead to normal weight loss...

Certain overweight people do need to wake up and take responsibility rather than blaming everyone and everything else... pretty sure you can see nutritionists at the doctors, and as well theres a whole wealth of information on the internet now about healthy eating/making the right food choices etc.

BUT the rest of the overweight people... who's food issues stem from mental health issues etc etc could do with some proper help, and not judgement.

And on a side note, i've started making those changes to my lifestyle because I realised what I was doing to myself and my own health.

'In my opinion it is largely due to modern society's obsession with body image, driven mainly by advertising aimed at wealth creation above all else.'

Noooo. IMO it goes much deeper than this and starts much earlier in life.

But I'm only able to speak for myself. Advertising has had no impact really...family issues, lack of love from parents, that sort of thing - far more important to a developing human than a few images on a screen.

Advertising can be a trigger but it isn't the fundamental reason for the problem.

I agree that mental health problems (or other things like a recent trauma, operation etc.) is in the minority for obesity, but I don't know if the person walking down the street is in this minority so they will never be judged by me. I have a very sick relation, she has been sick for many many years, when I say sick it is more of a condition, so she is well enough to sit around the house getting on with household tasks but not well enough to leave the house. She is overweight. To be honest if it were me I'd be a house, I think the few stone overweight she is actually is nothing compared to what she could be sitting around the house all day everyday.

I have battled with my weight my whole life, I'm just a greedy person, I still am. I do think it just needs to click with an overweight person, it takes time, energy, willpower, confidence, knowledge and money helps. If someone doesn't have all of this at once they don't lose. I'm not saying that makes it right to continue eating too much and make up excuses, but it is reasons and I dont' think we should judge.

I think the OP is right with respect to people who choose to lead unhealthy lifestyles.

I do not think this applies to people who have mental health issues.

I include myself inthe first category, and at times possible the second. Obviously persons with a recognised eating disorder should be treated accordingly.

But there are too many people out there who are making bad choices. Frequently see slim parents with fat kids - and yes wtf dont they know how to say know or take them for a walk.

I have seen two friends continually allow the DD to eat high sugar and fat foods huge portions but then say they are concerned about her weight. They are actually quite fit themselves but they indulge her so much and she is fat.

What about children though? Surely people remember Jamie's American school dinner program. Half the kids didn't have a bloody clue that chips were potato. They couldn't have recognised a vegetable if their life depended on it. By the time they are old enough to understand, and have the job to buy their own food and cook for themselves they have had YEARS of the lifestyle that's probably gonna kill them. It's all very well saying this stuff but what about when they have never known any different??

Rooners

You are probably right, after all you have actually experienced problems with food. I haven't got issues with food, and I'm looking in from the outside.i don't think advertising helps, though.

With children a lot of it comes down to generations of not knowing how to eat, or families being so set in their habits it becomes very difficult to change. We have adults who have never been taught how to cook so have learnt to rely on ready meals and other less healthy options and that cycle is one which we really need to find a way to change as a society.

it doesn't help that a lot of the food people go for are labelled as being healthy so people assume they are ok for them but upon closer examination of the labels they are no better, or even worse, than the normal version of the food.

The whole issue of obesity is so complex and to ever tackle it on a large scale we need to change society as well as individual attitudes

No, advertising can be very unhelpful, you're right. But it's part of a wider picture - people like certain ways of looking partly through a sort of natural evolution of ideas and advertising isn't always the badman, sometimes it just reflects the social vibe.

But seeking to exploit the social vibe for profit isn't usually a very nice thing. And it can go too far. Many people with anorexia or other eating issues are very intelligent and perfectly capable of seeing when they are being conned.

It's normally much more of a personal issue than a reaction to what's perceived as popular opinion. It's WHY we want to look acceptable in that particular way - iyswim - not everyone does want to be the perfect advertised figure. People who do, do so for their own reasons.

IMO anyway...could be in a minority here!

Skimmed the thread a bit, so sorry if repeating -

but ... the woman on the news this morning wasn't asking for a free weight loss op. She was asking for more funding for resources for folk who, having decided they wanted to do something about their weight, needed additional support to get it off.

I didn't think the NHS DO fund weight loss ops until you can show a steady commitment to weight loss do they?

I don't buy that advertising is the issue. I mean most people do know to take adverts with a lunch of salt.

However as just mentioned it's LABELLING that is an issue.

Low fat- usually means full of sugar.
You can have big fat greasy fry up syke meals that can still claim - contains 2 of your five a day.

And the "healthy versions" of a lot of the ready meals are tasteless and un satisfying. So people use more salt etc to eat it with and eat more of it as either they believe it's healthy or because it's not as substantial so they eat more of it and consume more calories than the smaller portion of the "full fat one" they would have eaten.

Tesco also dont subscribe to the traffic light system that sainsbury have. So you can't at a glance get a rough idea of the meal. Is it mainly green/red etc. It just gives numbers.

I am fat ( hate the term obese) because i have consistently eaten and drunk far too much over the last few years , every day . I am knowledgable about food , i just have a tendency to eat more than is required . I am not a manual worker so the four slices of toast i have just eaten for my breakfast is totally uneccessary , one would have been more than sufficent given that i have spent nearly an hour browsing the internet whilst sitting on my fat arse.
I do not believe that my weight is down to mental health issues , it is down to eating too much all the time . However i do know a few people who are fat , who with help could be in a far better place to do something about their weight .
In our area there are smoking cessation groups that i know people have found very helpful , whilst using different methods of giving up . Perhaps groups like this could help people with issues related to weight ?

If it's a health issue then the nhs do have to deal with it. Regardless of why a person has a health issue we have universal healthcare and they should be treated accordingly. We can't and should not live with a healthcare system that only treats certain problems as 'worthy'.
You are very wrong op. We treat the criminal who got injured committing a crime don't we? Because healthcare is for everyone, no exceptions . As it should be.

According to the NHS 26% of the adult population of England are classed as obese, that is 11,346,516 people (if we use 2011 census data).

Yes, some people do have medical conditions that make weight control very difficult, yes some people suffer from mental health issues that again make weight control seriously difficult. But I find the notion that the majority of those 11,346,516 people can attribute their size to medical or mental health conditions very hard to believe. I am happy to be proved wrong if someone can dig up some reliable report that suggests otherwise, but as far as I am concerned most obese people are that size because of their spectacularly poor diet choices and a total lack of exercise. Sadly being overweight has become 'normalised' in this country, walk down your average high street, it is evident to see. Sure, the doctor might say you have a high BMI and suggest you look at ways to reduce that, but when half your mates are the same size as you or bigger then I think a 'safety in numbers' mentality takes over.

The NHS should probably stop funding stomach pumps for people that overdose too , hey OP?

sovery I think it often takes something happening which makes weight loss the most important thing in your life before it can happen. Its a really complex thing though and certainly not as simple as wanting it so doing it. It takes something clicking in you for that to happen.

I have struggled with my weight all of my adult life. Without changing eating habits I have yo-yo'd up and down from slim to clinically obese.

I never understood it at all until a set of blood tests to check for various things revealed that I had serious thyroid issues. It was at the time often seriously overactive, causing my weight to plummet even though my metabolism roared ahead and I ate like a horse. Following treatment, I now have virtually no thyroid left, so I take thyroxine daily. I found though, that it took so long for the rampant appetite to reduce that the weight piled on, and again left me obese. I have struggled ever since, and I hate it.

If I take the first two words off Couthymow's post, I can relate to most of her sentiments. I hate being judged because of my weight.

My less than perfect eating habits were not helped by my medical issues. They have taken years to come under control, but it doesn't mean I don't take it seriously. I have cut out and down on an awful lot of the crap foods now, I exercise by walking my dogs for usually a couple of hours each day and am more confident now that I don't overeat regularly, but physical change in me is very, very slow indeed.

I doubt my eating habits will ever be perfect, but I am working hard to keep control in an effort to get my health back. It is devilishly hard though.

In general, I don't think weight loss surgery should be routinely available on the NHS. I have never had it and don't want it. Each case should be considered on its own merits though.

I totally agree OP.

I totally agree OP.

Posted too soon.

I actually even go further actually. Obesity is not a mental health illness. It begins as greed, it then reaches a stage where someone is so overweight that they have no motivation to reduce eating because it feel like a drop in the ocean. It is a will power issue. And the NHS should absolutely NOT fund an operation that is as a result of first greed, then lack of will power. I sympathise with these people, I genuinely do, what a poor quality of life they must have.

However, until we live in a world where cancer and other diseases such as that have been 'cured', then spending money on this seems almost criminal.