...to expect obese people to take responsibility for what they eat?

[Tabby1963]

"If I don't do this, no one's going to help me, and if I don't help myself I'm going to end up dying."

"I should have done something about this, I should have tried harder".

These quotes from a lady on BBC News this morning, and she hits the nail on the head.

As someone who has also struggled with weight issues for most of my life I feel that it is my responsibility what I put in my mouth, and expecting the NHS to fund my weight-loss op is very unreasonable. It is a waste of time unless I actually change my behaviour voluntarily, and if I change my eating behaviour voluntarily then I will solve the problem myself.

Come on, you have to be pretty big to get a gastric band on the nhs.

Do you really think people become that clinically obese of they could simply stop eating so much

Well the majority of people anyway

and a lot of people have a lot of issues and a lot of trauma, I think the people who went through life without any major trauma must absolutely be in the minority. I am absolutely not saying that it is easy to get over those traumas, but I am saying that each person has an individual responsibility. Being fat makes it harder - not easier and IME its like you are setting yourself up to fail and be miserable.

It needs to be recognised that a lot of people have a lot of difficult things on their plate and life isn't hunky dory for the majority of us, we all cope in different ways, but eating you can control, if you want to

People are saying it isn't a quick fix but in most aases it is!!
.It is successful in 95-98% of cases (depending whose statistics you take) and patients are generally within 20% of their target weight withing a year.And this is with patients who have failed at dieting all their lives.

I don't think the line between 'a bit greedy and should take more responsibility' and 'mental health issues' is clear cut. Having been an overweight child introduced to yo-yo dieting via my mother at age 9 (my mother had an eating disorder and food was always an emotional scene in my childhood home) I've been an obese adult for most of my life (now in my late 40s). I've recently lost 6 stone to reach a healthy BMI and am struggling with keeping it off. I always knew and understood what I should be eating, but through my 20s, 30s and most of my 40s I didn't feel good enough about myself to undertake the really hard work of breaking a physical addiction and decades of habitual behaviour around food. Finally, at the age of nearly 50, I think I'm strong enough - time will tell. But I really, really wish there had been help around for me much earlier. I wouldn't claim to have mental health issues, but I was physically addicted and emotionally not in a good place, and some support might have given me the boost to do what I needed to do much earlier in life - which in turn would have meant I was a much lower risk for all sorts of nasties, saving the NHS money in the long run.

Of course, some people with food addictions do have mental health issues, and those should be treated. In our society which prizes being thin and beautiful, very few people actually choose to be fat, and the message, 'you just lack willpower' is not only cruel, it's counter-productive.

I agree with you OP. Not everyone has a medical condition causing obesity yet its often the 1st thing mentioned, as if its a valid 'catch all' for obesity. Of course it isn't - some people stuff their faces due to sheer gluttony, and because food is there.

The greed seen here at times astounds me. Mounds & mounds of food bought because its christmas. How obscene. I guess all those buying for a gargantuan foodfest have medical conditions too? And with the wall-to-wall cooking programmes on tv I'm baffled by the number of people I come across who say they're too busy to cook. Busy doing what?! There are so many quick meals that can be made. Cooking doesn't have to be laborious. Even if its just jacket potato with a nice topping, as opposed to the immediate fix of the chicken & chips shop. I also don't believe that eating nutritionally has to be expensive. If one chooses to buy something costing £1 that really amounts to a ball of grease, rather than £1 on, say, a bag of frozen veg in Iceland then that's a choice they've made. We're spoilt for choice with the myriad of food available out there - some store 'own brands' can be quite nutritious.

I'm not a "diet saint" I have my unhealthy food moments. I just try not to do it so regularly - even if I wish I could. I do find it a big struggle. But I want to hopefully live a healthy life, be there for my DCs & have a better chance of seeing my grandchildren. I've no time for excuses for myself, or others. If people want to overeat or binge on junk that's their prerogative. Its my prerogative to not buy into the line that obesity can't be prevented by simply putting the junk/cakes down from time to time. Just because something may be very hard to do, that doesn't mean we should come up with a whole load of excuses to convince ourselves its impossible, when we know full well it isn't. I do think some just love a medical condition label - its justification for not doing jack shit to help oneself and demonising anyone who says actually, you could try binning some of the junk, as nice as it tastes, and getting of your arse to do even 15 minutes of exercise daily at home.

I'm watching a lady called Holly on the Lorraine show at the Month. She says she comfort eats, for various reasons. She was so desperate to change, she wrote to Paul McKenna. Well done to her for trying to change her situation. She's an 'emotional eater', they're saying. Well..she's trying

I agree with the OP. She's not talking about people with mental health issues or people taking medication. They are a separate issue.

Some people are just lazy and do no exercise and eat rubbish. We would all love to eat what we like when we like but we don't. We have willpower. It is hard, I lost 2 stones for my wedding a few years ago, and it was hard. These people should not have operations to loose weight on the nhs, they should do it like everyone else does.

However. I know it's not always as simple as that. They need to be educated to keep the weight off about healthy eating and exercise. If needed, they also need help and support about their relationship with food and why they eat too much. Otherwise the problem will never be solved.

I was going to give you a biscuit, but I ate it instead.

I don't think it's that easy for a lot of people.

So many factors conspire against them.

They probably ate poorly as DC and never developed reasonable eating and cooking habits.
They may well be adicted to certain foods.
They may be poor, and cheap food is laden with sugar and fat.
They may be surrounded by people who have no concept of good eating and cooking.

I can't judge them. That would be cruel.

YANBU and YABU too.

YABU for the reasons people have stated above re. mental health etc

YANBU if speaking about someone without medical explanation (mental or physical)

a woman I know drives me absolutely potty with this. she is very very obese and moans about her obesity whilst eating a large baguette sandwich crammed with mayo for breakfast. and chocolate and cake every day. she rants about the doctors she's seen telling her that her weight is most likely the reason she's suffering knee and ankle pain - apparently this males the doctors useless because it isnt her weight. (according to her) It only hurts when she's stood up or moving.

I would never start a thread about it though as MN has a tendency to look at every tiny infinitesimal issue that could otherwise be an explaining factor instead of just recognising that some people are just damn lazy.

but hey, tax money aside, it's themselves they are affecting the most

I also agree with the OP - yes, some people do have MH or other medical issues but far too many of us myself included just eat too much.

I love food, I am greedy, I don't like exercise. I don't have any MH issues, child hood abuse or anything like that. I am just greedy. I know how to cook from scratch (I have culinary qualifications ) - but actually that just means I can cook huge delicious meals .

I have lost weight over the years but I just go back to eating portions that are too large for me - I can afford to eat out, and even though I don't go to fast food places I still eat too much because I love food.

Despite my binge eating disorder I DON'T meet the criteria for gastric band surgery. It is a relief to know this.

For those asking why the binge eating is always crap.....sugars are addictive, as are foods high in sugars and fat.

My food of choice is crisps......I don't buy them now as one bag leads to another and another. It has taken years of therapy for me to reach this stage.

I tend to agree with the OP. I'm not sure that I can accept the comfort-eating argument.

I have an under active thyroid and PCOS. I am not overweight. When first diagnosed my dr told me it's still my decision what I put in my mouth. Shock words but they worked

God why does everyone jump to the 'mental health' argument. Yes some people have health problems that cause weight.

Lots are just greedy and lazy. Also alot of the health problems people blame for them gaining weight are actually caused by weight.

I worked with a girl who piled weight on because she couldn't exercise due to a bad knee. However the bad knee was originally caused by her weight.

We also need to look at the bigger culture of the country, with pretty much every social occasion being based around eating and generally eating 'bad' foods. Its not hard to see why someone who has a bad relationship with food in the first place (for whatever reason) is going to struggle when they are constantly being tempted. its easy for people who have never been in that position to say well just don't eat it but in the real world it doesn't work like that.

It takes a massive lifestyle change to begin to change, it is even harder to sustain that. Threads like this and other 'fat shaming' antics really don't help either. When I started running I was a size 18/20 and had people shouting insults at me about my weight, beeping car horns etc - I am a size12 now and strangely that never happens. Why do some (too many) people feel its ok to critisise those who are actively making an effort to change? Do people really thing actions like that (and other less extreme actions) are going to help someone who is already struggling and battling?

Also alot of the health problems people blame for them gaining weight are actually caused by weight.

Your right, its a vicious circle and one which is bloody hard to break.

patients are generally within 20% of their target weight withing a year

And how about a year later?

custardo I completely agree with you.

There is a certain amount of personal responsibility involved in many cases.

Obviously mental health problems excluded but for some reason on this site mh is given as a reason for everything.

It's not always the case, I don't have mental health problems, neither do my mother or sisters, yet we all struggle with out weight because we love food and don't exercise.

I do think it's an addiction just as my smoking is an addiction.
What I never get on threads like these is the amount of sympathy doled out to the overweight and obese.
If you start a thread about smokers the majority will agree, we're all disgusting, weak and smelly and apart from the few smokers defending themselves these threads get no understanding whatsoever.
Why is one addiction fine but not another.

I suppose because people have to eat but they don't have to smoke?

Exactly LBE reaching for a cigarette/reaching for a chocolate bar, to me it is very similar. Addiction to sugar/caffeine/tobacco whatever.

They don't have to eat to such excess and get grossly obese though, unless it is an addiction to food.

Best practice would be Bariatric surgery in conjunction with psychotherapy to address the underlying issues. This would still save the NHS a shed load of cash in the long term. Unfortunately decisions about treatment tend to focus upon immediately demonstrable short to medium term measures so this is unlikely to happen.