Family member committing benefit fraud.

[Unsure2014]

I have named changed for this post - for obvious reasons. I'm not a troll, been a member for roughly 18 months.

A family member of mine is claiming as a single parent, living in private rented accommodation paid for by Housing Benefit, etc.

Her boyfriend of just over a year has just got a mortgage on a different property close by. She has moved in with both her children but is still claiming benefits as though she is still living alone at her old address. She goes back to the old house regularly (I'm not sure if it's daily) to open curtains, etc.

I don't have a problem with benefit claimants, so this is not a benefit bashing thread, I just think she is being massively out of order.

Her boyfriend earns quite a good wage and I think she is aware that if she told them her new situation all her benefits, except child benefit, would cease.

AIBU to be thinking of reporting her?

First AIBU.

My apologies for the typos.

Nazi Germany ? I've heard it all now

I would be pissed off at her behaviour but I honestly don't know if I would report her I would like to think I would but I am not sure. Certainly I wouldn't try and have a word with her why should you she clearly knows she is doing wrong with the curtain thing and if you do decide to go down that route why should you have to deal with flak from anyone.

YANBU

Woowoo,

She is not actually acting unlawfully,the law allows her reasonable time to notify.

As to the time to test a cohabiting relationship we don't know if that is what she's doing,nobody other than the two people involved actually know what stage the relationship is at,being on benefits does not prohibit you staying with a bf/gf for a few weeks.

Gingee,

In 6 months its a whole different ball game, as she will have passed any notification periods allowed so if she's still saying that's what she's doing then it would be fraud (her saying things like I'm not going back just keeping it so I can claim) would mean she does not qualify for the 13 week rule as the main thing is long term intention to return and keeping it so you can properly live there not just in case.

It's the point where she crosses the notification periods that matter, obviously if they catch her they will reclaim money back dated to the actual change not just from the notification limit and anybody who does not instantly notify does risk several weeks of overpayment claw backs and its a pain in the arse so it's always advisable to do so but it's not fraud not to.

She has not started to do it, until such time as she fails to notify

People have made it clear that she has not committed a crime yet. If the OP is really so eager to report that she can't wait for her to have broken the law it says all you need to know about motives.

The poster who said that people's benefit doesn't get stopped until there is proof is probably talking about a while ago. Things have changed recently I'm afraid.

Also the comment about how most of those reported turned out to be benefit cheats is also out of date. Since the government began actively encouraging people to report any suspicion it's becoming a good way to pay back someone who has annoyed you.

Oh and we've had one poster suggest that those opposed to reporting are on benefits and another suggestion that those posters are benefit cheats. This is both sad and amusing. Remember that thing that had in the old days where if you defended someone falsely accused of being communist then you must be a communist too.

Some posters may have made it clear that she is NOT committing a crime but that doesn't mean its true . The 13 week rule has become a bit of a red herring in this thread as it only applies to housing benefit . It is also likely that it doesn't apply to the OP's relative as she is NOT intending to return to her accommodation.

Each local authority has its own requirements but all the ones I have seen require people notify them either IMMEDIATELY or within ONE MONTH of any relevant change in circumstance.

WhenWhy.

But the notification time requirements apply to all benefit, she is within that time.

Instant notification is not a requirement it's a you should,not you have to.

Fraud cannot be proven or even alleged against someone within the notification time allowed.

Sock I really am happy to be corrected but I don't see that there is a generic '13 week' grace period before you are obliged to notify your local authority of a change of circumstance that relates to benefits claimed. Can you back this up? (I do understand there can be a 13 weeks period where you can temporarily be away from your home but this is only applicable in certain circumstances relating to housing benefit)

As far as I understand, Councils get applicants to sign a declaration confirming that they will inform their Council within a month, 21 days or immediately when there is a change of circumstance. For benefit claims concerning council tax support claimants have a legal obligation to inform their council within 21 days.

Here are some random egs

BRENTWOOD website states 'If you are in receipt of Council Tax Support failure to report a change of circumstances within 21 days is a criminal offence'

SEFTON website states 'You have a legal obligation to inform the council immediately about any change in circumstances that affects the level of Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit that you are entitle to....'

BOLSOVER website states 'You MUST inform us of your change in circumstances within one calendar month of the date that the change took place for Housing Benefit purposes. Under Council Tax Support rules you must notify us of your change in circumstances within 21 days. Failure to do so could result in the Authority imposing a £70 penalty for Council Tax Support purposes'

Are there any posters who can confirm this one way or another??

I didn't inform the authorities I had a job until two weeks after I started. In that time I had received 3 extra weeks of income support. I was fined £50.

As I've said before it's not up to the OP or anyone else considering reporting it, to try and interpret the regulations and act as judge and jury.
If that was the case, no-one would ever report any sort of suspected crime.
If she has good reason to think there is a benefit fraud she should report it and leave it to the officials who apply the rules.
And again it's irrelevant whether the suspect is a relative or not.

I know other more knowledgeable posters are highlighting the lady in question may not even be committing fraud but I have a genuine question for the OP and others who are quick to suggest report.
As has been mentioned people rightly see benefit fraud as stealing so here is my Q.
If you were with a family member (maybe a cousin, no one really close but close enough) in Sainsbury.
They did a small shop and paid at self scan till.
You notice they have not paid for an expensive cosmetic.
Would you
A:~ Wait until you got outside and go ballistic at them for pinching, highlighting the morality and risk.
B:~ Wait until you were away from family member and ring the store providing details of your family member so they could pursue her.
I honestly think almost everyone would opt for A and the only reason it is different with benefits is because we are brainwashed into turning on poor people.
Shoplifting costs are passed to us all just as we fund tax

Fontofnowt - I'd choose option C) tell her that she's forgot to add the cosmetic to her shopping, she should do it before she pays.

I've decided to wait until the end of February until I report her. And I'm going to bring it up with her before then.

I'm appalled at everyone who thinks this is okay. So bloody what if she has a shit life, who hasn't! I've not had the greatest and I have to go back to work in a few months to pay for my DS and our home!

If me and DP were to split up then we would have to handle it like adults and come up with a solution - just like everybody else! No one else gets to have a house on standby just in case things don't work out with a partner.

and at some of the posts on this thread.

And to Nazi Germany and Korea. Weirdo.

Sounds like a plan OP, one that gives her time to do the right thing and hopefully holds off any unwanted upset for you and your family including her kids.

I don't mind my (ft) work and my ds is 17 now so it's a relief to be away sometimes!
I understand how it grates (on me too) when people take the piss with benefits but I don't think it's people like your family member who should be targeted.
Some stern advice dressed to suit the situation is what is needed and you will be doing her a huge favour by being the one to persuade her.

In my opinion she shouldn't have to choose between cap in hand for benefits or cap in hand for new fella.
Much better to have herself to rely on.
I would hope to have family like you who aren't knee jerking and reporting but rather giving me a boot up the bum if I need it.

Sock I really am happy to be corrected but I don't see that there is a generic '13 week' grace period before you are obliged to notify your local authority of a change of circumstance that relates to benefits claimed. Can you back this up? (I do understand there can be a 13 weeks period where you can temporarily be away from your home but this is only applicable in certain circumstances relating to housing benefit)

You have mixed up two different rules, at no time have I said you have 13 weeks to notify. The 13 week HB rule is totally a different rule to the ones relating to fraud.

13 week rule allows a person to be absent from their home for up to 13 weeks with out penalty if they have an intention to return and a few other things.

The notification period is a very different thing that does not even relate to the 13 week rule because there is no requirement to notify for that.

Changes in circumstances should be reported as soon as reasonably possible, for consideration of fraud reasonable has to allow enough time to do so it would be highly unusual for this to be less than almost a month (the exception being if you sign a declaration before you notify).

Think about it logically if not immediately notifying was a criminal offence then the courts would be full of people who waited a week or if we are going to get silly about it waiting over night and god help them if they wanted a receipt to prove notification cos that could take a few days as you may need to wait for an appointment.

When I worked at the dwp if I had of asked anyone to go forward with a fraud case without allowing time to report I would have been looked at very strangely.

Yes reporting changes straight away is much more sensible and I would always advise someone to do that becase if its dealt with quick enough you may not have to deal with any over payments (as benefits are paid in arrears) and if the change is in your favour you get it back paid if you wait they can only back pay up to a month.

Sock
Ok, we are saying the same thing. Your last post is clear.

The only thing I would add is that claimants of council tax support MUST inform their councils of a change in circumstance within 21 days. It's a legal requirement.