Family member committing benefit fraud.

[Unsure2014]

I have named changed for this post - for obvious reasons. I'm not a troll, been a member for roughly 18 months.

A family member of mine is claiming as a single parent, living in private rented accommodation paid for by Housing Benefit, etc.

Her boyfriend of just over a year has just got a mortgage on a different property close by. She has moved in with both her children but is still claiming benefits as though she is still living alone at her old address. She goes back to the old house regularly (I'm not sure if it's daily) to open curtains, etc.

I don't have a problem with benefit claimants, so this is not a benefit bashing thread, I just think she is being massively out of order.

Her boyfriend earns quite a good wage and I think she is aware that if she told them her new situation all her benefits, except child benefit, would cease.

AIBU to be thinking of reporting her?

First AIBU.

I know exactly where you are coming from but if she counts for the HB then she's not living with him she's still living in her own house.

As such she's not "living together as a couple" and (not that it's relevant here ) you don't even need to be living in separate households to not be living together as a couple.

The dwp/hmrc (guessing tac credits are involved) is not allowed to just decide someone is actually living as a couple with someone else unless they are,they also do not prohibit relationships.

People can have boyfriends or girlfriends and unless quite a few different criteria are happening like perception how they define each other future plans support the sort of things that normal reasonable people do in proper committed relationships then even if you do spend time as an overnight guest it's still not a living together relationship.

If they were able to do that many of us who are single could inadvertently be considered to be someone's responsibility with no intention to be committed to them no actual actions that signify your serious.

Of course it does not exempt committed but bad relationships, but it does have ways of defining what a couple relationship actually is.

On the ops last post a few things do suggest that they would be considered to be in a relationship especially the bit about him supporting her if the shit hit the fan so it's just down to are they actually living together or is she just a house guest.

If she genuinely has told you that that is her intention then of course she is and you should report if it were me I would wait until feb to do it that way it will be harder for her to get away with and they will have a better case and she deserves it.

Well her life sounds completely messed up doesn't it? Rightly or wrongly I could not personally be the one who made a phone call that would trigger off it getting a whole lot worse.

You seem set on it though OP, just make sure you give her fair warning.

Strange that there is so much sympathy for the benefit cheat.

So, her life sounds completely messed up and reporting her would make it worse? Okay................

A burgular/mugger/drug dealer/rapist very likely has a messed up life and being arrested and put in prison no doubt makes it worse.

A benefit cheat is stealing from the people, it is NOT a victimless crime.

I just do not understand the double standards - the government are heartless robbing bastards, yet she, who may be stealing a home and money that others need more than her, is OK.

Really?

If she's got all her furniture there, is paying her bills, and her name isn't tied to any other address -- even if you do report her, it will be very difficult for them to prove that is not her residence. They can't just barge into a home and demand to do a random search to see if your clothes are hanging up! I doubt they'd have the funds to get a 24hr surveillance based on one anonymous tip off. So she may not get caught, even if you do report her.

I think there are very very few people in prison or otherwise being dealt with by the criminal justice system who don't already have messed up lives. Telling the OP not to report in case she makes her relative's life worse might be kindly meant but is surely a bit self-selecting and naive.

OP, in your circumstances I would say to your relative that she needs to be aware that it will be pretty obvious to lots if people that she isn't really living at her old house,and she needs to make a plan to hand it back and stop claiming the benefits she is no longer entitled to. Then if she showed no sign if doing that I would report.

can u not just have a word with her?

I didn't make excuses that she had a messed up life. I said that I personally (as a family member that she presumably gets on ok with given that they have these kind on convos in the first place) could not be the one who pulled the trigger.

I agree with Parkin.
There are a lot bigger injustices in the world to worry about.
This sounds like a very spiteful thing to do. Have a look at your own motives.

Bloody hell, Parkin, comparing the OP pondering whether to report someone committing a crime to what happened in Nazi Germany? Really?? That's frankly vile and unnecessary.

I didn't realise Godwin's Law applied to MN

I agree with parkin too, getting people to dob each other in to the authorities, try North Korea, sounds like jolly good fun there.

Where does it all begin if not at the poorest/ weakest levels of society.

Am I wrong in thinking that David Cameron's father Ian Cameron was instrumental in setting up tax havens and loopholes which helped pay for his son's Eton education and left the family a substantial inheritance?
Don't we all get our knickers in a twist (quite rightly) about tax evasion too?
But who Polices that, oh yes, the press, not the government, oh no, because they've all got their sticky fingers in the pie too.

I find it very sad that so many people here think it's wrong to report benefit thieves. And I wonder how many of you are doing the same thing yourselves.
The OP should definitely report this because it is wrong, and that doesn't mean she is spiteful or has ulterior motives. It just means she wants the money and house to be properly used.
In her position I would not hesitate.

So if we don't agree that it's fine to report a family member then it's likely we are committing benefit fraud ourselves? That's quite a leap there sallyingforth and rather limited thinking imo. I am guessing you are DM reader?

I'd report it. She's still gonna be getting income support and child tax credits she's not entitled to.

Thats a very good point 34DD.

Its saddening so many support the theft, which is what it is. She could easily get a job, stop claiming lone parent benefits then is not beholden to her partner and not commiting fraud. Theres no justifcation for benefit fraud ever.

Morals appear to be something only a few have now.

And Tara, not to mention duck ponds!!

Ha ha ha ha ha at the nazi Germany analogy! Priceless. When the government don't do anything about tax avoidance by companies then they are scum but if you commit benefit fraud its condoned as you have had a shit life

No sparkly I said I wondered about it. And I notice you again repeated the family bit, as if being family excused the crime. Every thief is someone's relative.

I've got no issue with reporting benefit cheats at all.

But the op's relative is highly unlikely to be committing any Right now.compleatly ignoring the possible HB 13 week rule.

Her future intention is irrelevant what matters is the time allowed to notify,lots of advice is report instantly however people still have a set time to do so the instant notification is in most circumstances only advice that prevents having to deal with over payments (If it was not it would be carnage trying to deal with all the prosecutions). What matters is what she actually does at the end of this month she may come to her senses and do the right thing she may even go back to her home.

Any enquiry from any benefit dept for at least the next month will just be dealt with by saying either I was coming into the office on x day to report or even well we've been staying over as visitors for Christmas and the new year extended our visit a bit and we've only talked about me moving in I haven't actually decided to do it yet. Or I stayed as a visitor over the Christmas period we decided I would move in this month (pick any date) I was going to pop into the office.

All things that are allowed and not even really questionable you wouldn't even have to prove it.

No one is condoning benefit fraud, just saying I wouldn't be the one to do the receiving of benefits unless I had to nor the reporting.
And it might be a better example from our elected leaders if they put their own houses in order first and maybe reported their buddies and colleagues especially when they are so keen for us proles to be reporting family and friends.
Look at the statistics and see where most fraudulent activity takes place and what the amounts involved are.
It isn't benefits.

I think it being a family member who the OP gets on well with means that she should talk to her first and give her a heads up and a chance to sort it out. If she can't do that then she should leave it for others to do.

The point that has been made about her wanting a security and somewhere to go if the relationship doesn't work out is a ridiculous excuse.

Those of us that house ourselves privately don't have the luxury of the state providing us with a 'just in case' home, we have to make sensible decisions and weigh up the benefits and risks before committing ourselves and our children to someone new.

This woman will have the same ability to exit the relationship as everyone else has if their relationship goes wrong, she is not a special case.

She deserves to be reported, and OP has every right to do it anonymously. It's not ops responsibility to point out that her friend is acting unlawfully.

But if in say, six months time the situation is the same, and Op's relative is still going round topen and shut the curtains and keep up an appearance of living there when she hasn't for some time, is it ok to report her then? Because the main argument here is that its ok because of the 13 week rule. But what happens when that doesn't apply? I think it's a hard situation and op should definitely discuss it with het relative to make her aware of how she feels about her actions, but the comparisons to Nazi Germany and North Korea are just daft and quite frankly a bit offensive.