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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Family member committing benefit fraud.

192 replies

Unsure2014 · 10/01/2014 15:35

I have named changed for this post - for obvious reasons. I'm not a troll, been a member for roughly 18 months.

A family member of mine is claiming as a single parent, living in private rented accommodation paid for by Housing Benefit, etc.

Her boyfriend of just over a year has just got a mortgage on a different property close by. She has moved in with both her children but is still claiming benefits as though she is still living alone at her old address. She goes back to the old house regularly (I'm not sure if it's daily) to open curtains, etc.

I don't have a problem with benefit claimants, so this is not a benefit bashing thread, I just think she is being massively out of order.

Her boyfriend earns quite a good wage and I think she is aware that if she told them her new situation all her benefits, except child benefit, would cease.

AIBU to be thinking of reporting her?

First AIBU.

OP posts:
Thatisall · 10/01/2014 20:08

Posted too soon. This hives her the opportunity to say why she feels she isn't breaking the rules and you the opportunity to make an informed decision before you make that call.

Chigley1 · 10/01/2014 20:17

I had a neighbour who kept this up for over 15 years (returning once every 2 or 3 weeks to collect post and so on) then moved her son in when he was old enough to live alone. I have no idea of the legality of this but doesn't really seem fair when another family could have lived there all that time.

Fontofnowt · 10/01/2014 20:27

I think the OP would be very unreasonable to report a family member, who she knows about because she is a trusted member of the family, instead of talking to the person.
If the OP feels strongly about the stealing of our tax money then there is a simple solution that would stop the stealing of the money.
Confront her as a family member and tell her to stop.
Reporting her without speaking first makes me think of malicious, gleeful people who enjoy causing mayhem and trouble.
I'm sure the OP doesn't want to disrupt and destroy anyone in her family so I would assume she is looking for alternatives hence her aibu.

@Demaz I do receive DLA make of that what you will.

Sparklysilversequins · 10/01/2014 21:03

Yes Demaz I do, DLA and carers allowance, for my chid with multiple additional needs. Your point is????

DownstairsMixUp · 10/01/2014 21:10

If she was my friend, I would warn her that people could be watching, she could easily get found out and how I'd hate to see that happen to her. I'd probably keep mentioning it to her so she understood what could happen but I wouldn't report her.

TinaTonkaTruck · 10/01/2014 21:11

I can't see how she would qualify under the 13 week rule. The stipulations are that the person claiming HB is:

You are on holiday and your circumstances do not change.

You are absent due to domestic reasons (for example, the illness or death of a close relative or friend).

You are absent for religious reasons.

You are working away from home in the UK or abroad, either paid or unpaid.

You are a sentenced prisoner.

From what the OP has said, she does not fall into any of those categories. And if she is claiming benefits on the grounds that she is a single parent living at address A but she is living as a partner of a person who is in full time work and actually living at address B then she is not entitled to benefits. The only exception to this is if you have lost your job and are claiming contribution based benefits, which are not means tested and not affected by your partner's earnings.

And where did this 96% of reports about potential benefit fraud were inaccurate thing come from? I used to be a benefit fraud investigator. About 80% of the anonymous referrals we got turned out to be accurate. I find it hard to believe that things have changed that much.

CaffeinatedKitten · 10/01/2014 21:20

I would report, and I say that as somebody who was falsely reported for fraud two years ago.

TinaTonkaTruck · 10/01/2014 21:34

And on MN benefit fraud is the only crime where the 'reporter' should be 100% aware of all the facts, have a statement signed in blood that fraud is taking place and have explicitly told the perpetrator what they're about to do. If not you're spiteful, malicious or jealous. Or probably all three.

Even if the person is bragging to you and others about what they are doing you should reason with them and hope that they think better of it even if that causes a massive fall out.

Would people act the same if a relative was shoplifting to order, dealing coke, dishing out stolen credit cards or selling counterfeit bank notes? I do wonder.

Sparklysilversequins · 10/01/2014 21:40

I think you DO have to be 100% aware of the facts where reporting for benefit fraud is involved. The reasons being that the majority of people on benefits are on their absolute uppers, there are often children involved who are the ones who will be most affected by benefits being stopped immediately while the investigation takes place and benefits are the only cushion that family has to ensure they eat, getting it wrong does not bear thinking about.

WhenWhyWhere · 10/01/2014 22:31

If you genuinely have good reason to think that someone is committing benefit fraud then you should report them. It would be crazy to think you have to be 100% certain before reporting Confused

TinaTonkaTruck · 10/01/2014 22:33

Maybe things have changed, although I am not aware of it.

In my day we could only stop benefits if we could present actual evidence to a decision maker that the benefit recipient clearly was no longer entitled - such as their partner was registered as living at their at their address and in full time work, or that they had failed to attend three appointments where we had asked them to come in and discuss their claim, or that we had evidence that they were working full time.

34DD · 10/01/2014 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffyxSummers · 10/01/2014 22:57

She could do the curtains to deter any potential burglars. Isn't it recommended to do that sort of thing using timers or neighbours when you go on holiday or stay elsewhere?

TheVeryBusySpider · 10/01/2014 23:00

TinaTonkaTruck, a persons benefit would still be suspended whilst the decision is made, and as I'm sure you're aware, that can be a lengthy process.

34DD · 10/01/2014 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffyxSummers · 10/01/2014 23:06

I don't know what real world vs on mn thing is about but she could be staying with him as a trial run. That's the same as going to stay with family for a couple of weeks or a holiday. The only difference being he is a romantic interest.

TinaTonkaTruck · 10/01/2014 23:11

No not necessarily The Very I have never suspended anyone's benefit whilst I investigate further. In law I have had to give them the benefit of doubt. I have only ever suspended benefits when I have had evidence of fraud.

racmun · 10/01/2014 23:12

I posted a similar thread a couple of months back and got badly flamed.

At the the end if the day I decided to report, no one could give enough of a convincing reason to not report what is ultimately theft.

Benefit fraud is a massive drain on the country's finite funds and is ultimately paid for by someone somewhere.

I don't think turning a blind eye (as some might suggest to) is good enough.

I would report

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 23:18

tina

You can also be staying with a friend visiting family, they are not stipulations they are possible examples of reasons why people may its when you jump over to the 52 weeks that they become stipulations.

Many things can be domestic reasons.

For the 13 weeks you do not even need to provide a reason you do not even need to inform.

The 96% came from the figures released by the hotline.

Sallyingforth · 10/01/2014 23:19

I disagree that you should be 100% sure before reporting. As the posts here demonstrate there;s a wide difference of opinion as to what's lawful.
It's the DSS's job to determine whether a claim is genuine, not ours.
If it looks pretty clear that something is wrong then we should report it and leave it to the experts. It can and should be done from the simple motive of preventing crime - not out of spite.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 23:25

I don't think it is obvious what she's planning because it could go three ways.

She does not notify and has no intention to return then that's fraud

She does notify

In a couple of weeks she wises up (based on op's impression of bf) and listens to the voice in the back of her mind and goes back to her own house.

Obviously I'm guessing about the voice in her head that's mainly because I have never met anybody who would move into one house leaving another empty one that's fit to live in costing money that they cannot rent out for any other reason

Original poster
Unsure2014 · 10/01/2014 23:37

Okay, there have been a lot of responses since my last post.

The ex has moved to another city, shacked up with another woman and doesn't want anything to do with the kids. He's on benefits too and she doesn't receive any support from him, nor will she ever.

For the people saying she hasn't donr anything wrong yet, due to some sort of time frame that allows her to do this for a while - I know she won't inform them. She told me that she was keeping the house on so she could still have her own money and not have to rely on her boyfriend for handouts.

She won't leave him, trust me I know her. When I went on Xmas Eve they had a row and she was in hysterics and wanted to go home.

I told her to get what she and the kids needed and I would take her home. Did she leave? No. Because she wont! No matter how unhappy she is, she has to be with a man.

For those of you saying I am spiteful and malicious, I'm sorry you're that cynical and think everyone has an ulterior motive.

I do not wish this woman harm (I have been there for her in many ways) and have never ever interfered with her life or decisions. But to me this is stealing. She has made it plain to me that keeping the house on whilst living with her partner is her intention.

Am I supposed to just let it go because she might stop her claim in 3 or 6 months when she is satisfied with staying at the new house? That's between £1500 and £3000 that she has claimed for a house she is not living in.

How is that right? In any way?

And for those who are asking about the children and what would happen if her benefits stopped whilst she was under investigation. Her partner would provide for them. He already did some of the food shopping for her at her old house.

Sorry if I've missed anyone's point.

OP posts:
WhenWhyWhere · 10/01/2014 23:38

Sock The 13 week rule is only applicable if the OPs relative is intending to return to her accommodation Confused. As far as I can see, she has to tell the council that her circumstances have changed either immediately or within a month (depending on the council)

TinaTonkaTruck · 10/01/2014 23:42

But Sockret you are only talking about Housing Benefit. The OP's friend is in receipt of other benefits based on her being a single parent.

From what the OP said she is living with her partner who is in full time work, which means she is not entitled to benefits. The fact that she is pretending to still live alone, going back to her flat to draw the curtains etc, with no other means of support - as in a partner in full time work - means that she is fraudulently claiming benefits. Us tax payers are subsidising the lifestyle of her and her partner - him drawing a wage and her drawing benefits to which she isn't entitled.

I'm not entirely sure why that is ok to anyone.

fifi669 · 10/01/2014 23:55

I would report. Though in all fairness it would be after a period of time, maybe 2 months. I would give her that to come clean or decide she made a mistake and move back. After that she's fair game.