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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Family member committing benefit fraud.

192 replies

Unsure2014 · 10/01/2014 15:35

I have named changed for this post - for obvious reasons. I'm not a troll, been a member for roughly 18 months.

A family member of mine is claiming as a single parent, living in private rented accommodation paid for by Housing Benefit, etc.

Her boyfriend of just over a year has just got a mortgage on a different property close by. She has moved in with both her children but is still claiming benefits as though she is still living alone at her old address. She goes back to the old house regularly (I'm not sure if it's daily) to open curtains, etc.

I don't have a problem with benefit claimants, so this is not a benefit bashing thread, I just think she is being massively out of order.

Her boyfriend earns quite a good wage and I think she is aware that if she told them her new situation all her benefits, except child benefit, would cease.

AIBU to be thinking of reporting her?

First AIBU.

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 17:57

handcream if she is within the 13 weeks she does not need to stay/sleep/eat there she just needs to enter,as well as still maintain the property and services and have further intention to return.

Someone who feels the need to go do the curtains regularly (in the op it suggests it could be daily but op is not sure) is not going to have the utilities cut off nor will they have emptied the house,if she's done that se would be wanting to keep the curtains closed.

I have over 30+ clients who have not (how we would see it traditionally resided) in their homes for more than a year yet as long as they enter at least once every 13 weeks and keep up with the other requirements they are doing nothing wrong.

I know this as every single one has reported this to the dwp/hmrc/la kept them updated and given reasons(they are not required to).

2 were accused of wrong doing however it was proven they were acting with in the law.

WhenWhyWhere · 10/01/2014 17:58

I really wouldn't talk to her first. It could cause a huge family rift. If you feel you want to give her a chance to stop fraudulently claiming then you could try telling a white lie - as suggested by an earlier poster.

Original poster
Unsure2014 · 10/01/2014 18:23

WhenWhereWhy - that is my reason for not wanting to warn her first. She would tell other people in my family what I was intending on doing and I would be given a lot of agro! I would probably be pressured into not reporting her and then everyone would have fallen out with me anyway.

If I report her and then tell her then at least I can't be pressured into not reporting her. Family will fall out with me either way.

OP posts:
Thatisall · 10/01/2014 18:25

Have you asked her when she's going to 'officially' move in with bf?

Sallyingforth · 10/01/2014 18:30

I certainly wouldn't tell her. Better to leave her guessing who reported her.

TheVeryBusySpider · 10/01/2014 18:33

I agree with you sockreturningpixie, but we don't know the full facts for example whether the OP's family member has moved her possessions, whether she had kept all her bills (including phone bill ) registered at the old address or whether she is contributing to bills at the her boyfriends address. I think it would be impossible to predict the outcome of a living together decision just on the information given.

Ideally, she would need to speak to the DWP, HRMC and her LA for further advice.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:35

Unsure.

You could try making sure she's aware how much of a pickle she could be in and how easy it would be for them to find out using data matching ect, you don't need to say a word about reporting because no benefit agency actually needs reports these days.

Often it can make things easier with certain types of fraud (cash in hand work where actual info is provided that sort of thing).

If she is ever interviewed they will have copies of electronically gathered data info from utility companies stuff like that so it need never look like she has even been reported.

Don't tell her about the 13 week rules or what counts as cohabitation (in all fairness she can't find out a lot of it as loads of the info is not in the public domain and is exempt from the FOI so won't be published).

It may worry her enough for her to walk from a relationship with this man,if he's as unsuitable as you think that would be a very very good thing.

Original poster
Unsure2014 · 10/01/2014 18:35

Thstisall - she's already there. They moved in on Christmas Eve.

OP posts:
WooWooOwl · 10/01/2014 18:36

I'm surprised OP is getting such a hard time over telling her relative if she reports.

I don't think there is any obligation at all to tell her. She took the risk that she might be reported when she chose to commit the fraud and she took the risk again when she told someone about it. She has put you in this position OP, and I don't suppose it's a nice position to be in.

OP had no choice about knowing this information, and there is no way she should have to put up with fall out from less scrupulous family members just because one of them has chosen to break the law.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:42

Yes very, if you want to make sure you stay within the law it's always best to make sure your as open as you can be with the agencies concerned.

Obviously some things are nothing to do with them and that's why they are prohibited from asking, but if you are unsure it's always best to ask. Making sure your asking someone who has been there long enough to know.

If she is not covered under the 13 week rule,It would be very interesting to know when this staying at her bf's started was agreed and she switched from hers to bf's happening because if it was Christmas week and she has no intention to return to her place and is gradually but properly moving in with him she's still with in time to notify and does have a little time left to do so. So if she walked in the same day as the deadline and told them.
she's then done nothing wrong (same as if a report was made or investigation happened she wouldn't have done).

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:44

Good x post there op Grin

If it was Christmas Eve then no way has she broken any rules at all.

Granted it will be more of a pain in the arse sorting out the over payments but she won't have broken any rules as she still has time left to notify.

DeMaz · 10/01/2014 18:47

I wonder if the posters on here who are saying that the OP is unreasonable are actually claiming benefits themselves?

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/01/2014 18:47

As people have said there's some doubt that she has moved in the legal sense. It may depend on intent rather than simply how many days. So you are not it seems 100% sure she has broken any law.

You should be aware of the consequences of a false report. As currently being discussed on this thread here

As for reporting anonymously because of the effect on you. Well this is just a personal opinion, but it feels dishonest and cowardly unless you fear actual physical repercussions. Are you really going to say "Ohh reported? How awful for you! I wonder who would do such a thing?" to her face?

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:48

woowoo

A claimant has reasonable time to report a change of circumstances.

She is within the time allowed to do so,so no matter what the complete circumstances intention ect no fraud has been committed.

She may have an intention to commit it but so far she has not.

TaraLott · 10/01/2014 18:51

I wonder if the posters on here who are saying that the OP is unreasonable are actually claiming benefits themselves?

Nope, not even CB.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:51

Blush that's my thread,

Sorry I've got a beef about not needed reports. Bloody hate actual benefit fraud but dislike reports with ulterior motives or when nothing is wrong

TaraLott · 10/01/2014 18:52

Anyhoo, I'm not saying she is being U, just that I wouldn't do it.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 18:52

I wonder if the posters on here who are saying that the OP is unreasonable are actually claiming benefits themselves

Nope not even CB ever even when I could have claimed it, don't even use the public services you get a choice about using.

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 10/01/2014 18:59

I am not sure that a boyfriend's wage is really a factor...how reliable is it? They could break up after two weeks then where would the children be?

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 10/01/2014 19:00

Xmas eve was two, three weeks ago?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 10/01/2014 19:01

All those saying don't report her, would you say the same if it was a random person living on the same street?

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 10/01/2014 19:02

I don't like people taking advantage of benefits, but I think venom should be reserved for gangs who specifically target our benefit system, with fake marriages, fake children and so on.

I just couldn't myself target someone with children who seems to have had a bit of a shit time..

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2014 19:26

Willbe,

She's pretty much got until the end of the month unless of course er circumstances make her able to use the 13 week rule (in that case whilst its advisable she's under no legal obligation to inform)

toffee

Well yes I would normally not report anybody for fraud if they were not committing it

Sallyingforth · 10/01/2014 19:37

I asked before... is the children's father supporting them, and if not why not. She shouldn't be having to stay with the new BF just to get him to pay for the kids.

Thatisall · 10/01/2014 20:07

Unsure. So she's moved in with her dc and her house is empty? If that's the case then how about saying you're worried about neighbours reporting her? They'll have seen her moving stuff out?
If she hasn't moved all her furniture etc then I'd say this was a grey area as she is sort of 'staying over' and you can't know for sure who is paying for her dc clothes, food etc for sure can you? In any case I would try the 'I'm worried you'll get reported' line for a couple of weeks and then report her.