AIBU to feel annoyed when it appears that a vaginal delivery is an "achievement"

[walkie]

Sorry for the rant, family member has just had second child, and other family members are repeating "amazing" "she did really well" "she only needed gas and air" "it only took X hours". I can't help wanting to say, well, I didn't exactly choose c-section & various other complications - I hate that this feels like somehow her natural delivery is more "worthy" than any other routes? There are no A*'s in childbirth (or have I missed something?)! (This is really just about me & how I feel - I know the most important thing is that mum & baby are safe & well.)

RedToothBrush

You said it better than me. It's not the fault of individual woman so much as Institutional attitudes towards childbirth.

I would love to sneeze a child out of my ear, BTW

"She only needed gas and air" is pretty clear in what it implies about people who needed more than gas and air.

I actually have a short story somewhere, in an ancient collection of feminist sci-fi, about a woman who gives birth out of her ear. To a very small baby, obviously. (It was that sort of collection. Rather fabulous.)

The fact is, every single literary and oral culture perpetuated by women describes childbirth as very painful and life-threateningly dangerous. What with it being very painful and life-threateningly dangerous. It's not just a fabrication of over-medicalised western thought. (In fact the first woman in the UK to have anaesthesia in childbirth only got her way because she was Queen Victoria.)

I was commiserated when DS1 was born by CS, apparently I should have been mourning the perfect birth he didn't have....I was a bit insulted /mystified by that.

I get what you are saying OP, a birth like your cousin's is all about luck and really good care. Not preparation or trusting your body or any such tripe.

(Disclaimer: I did feel like a total hero when DS2 was born vaginally no pain relief against the odds yadda yadda. Especially with DH squirming about saying oh my god it's all so visceral and primal and wittering on about how weird it is to see a person coming out of another person)

This makes me angry too op. I wanted a water birth, just g&a etc, but ended up with an induction. It took 72 hours from pessary to dd being born by emcs, and I still have very mixed feelings now. I don't feel that I can say that I "gave birth" to dd, but my cervix didn't dilate past 9.5cm, no matter how high the drip went (they maxed it for an hour and it was absolute agony, but with no joy). I hate it when people smugly say how they breathed their baby out with just half a paracetamol. It's luck, nothing more, nothing less.

Meryl

I also felt proud when I had DS2 vaginally, in light of the trauma of the first birth. I quickly saw the error of my hubris though. Terrible piles

I felt like a total fucking failure for ending up with a ventouse and epiduralled up to my eyebrows. FWIW. At the time.

No amount of "trusting your body" is going to make a difference to some of the possible birth complications, and no matter how much faith in your body you have, these can happen to anyone.

I agree.

But if you don't trust your body enough to even try you have 0% chance of giving birth vaginally.

I am proud that I learnt to trust my body, it was a long difficult journey for me to get there. I have never suggested that trust itself will give you an easy v-birth but you need trust to even attempt one.

What gets me is there are a lot of women who have CS, particularly ELCS and are actually AFRAID of talking about it with friends/family because they are worried about the reaction they will get.

If this doesn't reflect an institutionalised issue, then I'm not sure what does.

Sadly, it makes it harder for women who are perhaps traumatised by their experience and therefore more vulnerable, to come to terms with what they have gone though as a result. They are more isolated and their sense of worth damaged.

Comments that it doesn't matter 10 years down the line, actually miss the effect on self esteem that can be extremely long lasting, and go way beyond when people talk about how you gave birth.

We should be able to discuss this without people feeling they will be looked down by society for something beyond their control. You know what a prejudice is? And like all people who come from the 'privileged' position in some ways, they perhaps have to do more to have sympathy and support those in the disadvantaged group until the ignorance is beaten.

Sorry to bang on but Caitlin Moran says something about that too ikea

I think my booked in advance elcs was positively a massive achievement personally. I achieved a calm and wonderful birth.
As long as our babies get here safely ....that's the important thing.

Can I just clarify: when I said 'it doesn't matter 10 years down the line' I meant in the light of realising that in fact there are lots of other things, things that have absolutely nothing to do with my reproductive capacity and/organs, that I've done that I'm proud of. Prouder of, really.

Disclaimer: I do love my children and I am proud of them. But I'm not particularly proud of me for happening to provide the womb within which they grew or the vagina through which they exited.

Women who have nice births should just shut up??!

Nice births? Birth hurts like buggery. I remember getting the point where I felt death would be preferable, and I also distinctly remember feeling the tear as dc1 crowned. There is nothing 'nice' about birth (well, apart from the baby) - its animalistic, bloody and brutal.

For every woman who feels offended or upset by hearing of another woman's natural birth, id bet my bottom dollar there are just as many women who are fed up of the assumption that if you don't have pain relief then you must have had an easy time of it.

And - see above - I felt terrible for going down the epidural route and then for having massive interventions. (Even though in fact a 46-hour labour and a cord round the baby's neck were all going to make that a necessity even if I'd not decided it in advance.)

I loved my CS...any more tiny Sugars will be 100% born that way too. No pain from start to finish. Amazing. I do know others who have had emergency ones though, who do feel like they had something taken away from them. I can't imagine going through a natural birth. My CS was my birth plan. I don't know how I'd have coped menatlly if I was planning one thing and had rehearsed it in my head 1000 times, then in the misdt of it all I was whisked away and the opposite of what I had planned was sprung on me as a necessity.

I feel for you Meryl that you were commiserated on yours. It's very common. People look at me in astonishment when I say I'd have another CS tomorrow. Let them look, let them comment. Be grateful you're not a twunt like they are.

Also was mystified that everyone (apart from those about to give birth/those who recently had which is fair enough) were so interested in the detail every time.

It hurt like hell and I swore and pooed a lot. That would be the most accurate description. Delete the pooing bit for the C/Ss. Not v interesting.

I am proud that I learnt to trust my body, it was a long difficult journey for me to get there. I have never suggested that trust itself will give you an easy v-birth but you need trust to even attempt one.

Do you need to trust your body or to trust those caring for you to act in your best interests and to support how you feel?

To be honest, in terms of attempting a vb rather than going straight for an ELCS when you actually look at the decisions women are making, both are important factors. A woman might think she is physically capable of a vb under the right circumstances, but doesn't think the people treating her will look after her properly so may opt for an ELCS instead...

Agree Red and sugar

I think giving birth is an achievement. Or adopting a baby for that matter as well.

It's awful that you felt bad about it MI.

The culture in the UK is to judge women based on their performance in childbirth.

It really isn't Redtoothbrush. In fact I have never come across this in RL. Not personally and not professionally. Not once and I know an awful lot of women who have given birth.

I also get "you didn't really give birth though did you?"

No no, infact I fashioned him out of buttons and vegetable peel.

Technically I had a "child removal"....he just got removed out of a slit in my tummy instead of being removed out of my birth canal. Makes no odds to me, it's fascinating the amount of people it does matter to though.

Really? You sure about that DioneTheDiabolist?

So how come the press come out with phrases saying "too posh to push" and Kate Middleton was so praised for her decision to have a vb?

I must be living in a parallel dimension.