to be pissed off that they seem to have lots more disposable cash than me?

[JRmumma]

Just to be clear, in not 'benefits bashing' but a friend of mine who chose not to return to work after DC3 as she worked out that tax credits and housing benefit would make her family 'no worse off', seems to have lots more money than me.

To explain my situation, i have 1DC and am on mat leave at present. When i go back to work, we will have less money than we do at the moment after work travel costs and childcare is paid for. I have to go back full time to enable us to survive even though i didn't want to, but accept that children are expensive and needs must. We are also having to seriously cut back on the few luxuries that we currently have (memberships/subscriptions).

Ive just discovered that my friend has just booked her second holiday for this year. Without saying where it is for fear of outing myself, its a v expensive holiday for her and hubby. The other holiday is a European all inclusive jobby for the whole family. All 3 DC also had expensive electronics for Xmas.

This really fucks me off. Where am i going wrong? If they have enough money for exotic holidays and all the latest mod cons, why are they receiving tax credits and housing benefit? And why oh why will the only holiday i get this year be a £9.50 sun holiday if both me and DH work full time and claim nothing?

Oh and we live in a house that is far too small in a shitty area as no one will accept even partial housing benefit.

Loopylouu

It is disgusting about the housing benefit news. I can't imagine what that must feel like.
For anybody who doesn't know its saying that now benefit is to be paid to the tenant and not the ll that the tenant is less likely to pay their rent.

I really don't understand your point of view though more than. You're fully capable of working, chose not to because it's 'too expensive' yet think you're worthy of the same disposable income as someone who works their arse off? I beg to differ. If everyone had your attitude to working there would be no benefits available to those who actually need them.

People who aren't capable of working and need to claim for disabiltiies, sickness, carers etc are worthy of course they are. They have no choice in the matter.

OP you have a mortgage yes? They are renting? In the future this gives you capital they don't have. It's a choice anyone able to do so has to make - I have a mortgage on a 4 bed detached house, my friend rents a 1 bed and travels extensively. We are both middle class couples in white collar jobs but we have made different decisions.

If you are solvent, focus on the positive. My parents focussed wholeheartedly on securing our future when I was little and it was tough when I was young but in teen years we were 'well off'. My parents were able to retire really early with no debts and still invest, where my family who were renting and then causing tremendous fuss to claim sickness are now still precarious and bent on every evaluation of a 50+ yr old man with a mildish condition. (And yes, before you come out of the woodwork, I have spoken to all parties so I know the reality of the situation work wise and otherwise).

And re the universal credit/landlords thing, I know of MANY people who I once associated with through my ex who will end up spending their rent money as soon as it gets into the bank when this universal scheme comes in. It is an absolute shame though because all DSS tenants are being tarred with the same brush so landlords aren't accepting housing benefit. I can't say I blame them on one hand, but on the other it's not fair on those who pay their rent on time without fail.

The statistics on non-mortgage debt in the UK always make me shake my head in disbelief. Perhaps your friend has a slice of that huge debt? I wouldn't envy it.

morethan im not working for minus money, and the alternative isn't be a SAHM as we need my wage. Its not a choice.

Also, for those who seem to think i must be frittering away money in comparison with my friend - our mortgage is less than their rent, all bills and outgoings are as low as they can be. We don't have tv subscription, gym memberships, a second car, new clothes except on birthdays/xmas/when absolutely essential, cut own hair etc and only 1 child who is

Doyoulikemybaubles

We all manage our money how we feel fit and we do this by choice.
It is my belief that if you manage your money well you will benefit.
You are entitled to your opinion though of course.
My post said I chose to be a sahm its what we both decided, its what I wanted irrespective of tax credit awards. I made the point that had I wanted to work we would have been worse off financially and I wasn't prepared to do that. I'm not on my own, many people hold the same view.

JR

This is the norm for many families though, and I don't mean to be nasty to you. Most people on benefits who I know live like this, granted most have one adult in the household in employment.
My dh only earns the min wage, I am taking dd to Italy next month for a couple of weeks hopefully. The truth is a friend has a property, my dd can go cheap during term time and we are on a tight budget.

morethan well technically it isn't your money you're 'handling' is it.

But it doesn't matter. I just find your attitude pretty depressing really. Thank god not everyone thinks that way. If they did half of my colleagues would up and leave, then who'd look after people when they're sick? :)

Could they have won the lottery/ inherited money?

Maybe if she's a sahm they have extra cash because they're saving the cost of childcare ?

I cannot for the life of me see why it bothers you so much.
You look after you and yours and let others do the same.
DH and I haven't been abroad for 25 years, all our holidays have been camping and that includes times when DH has gone to work and left us at the camp site for the day and come back to the tent at night, he's SE and works when the work is there.
Jealousy is an ugly thing.

I too was going to bring up the idea that it may be because you are buying your own home (so won't get help with the mortgage or the maintenance costs of your property nor the buildings insurance!) whereas somebody getting housing benefit benefits from all of those things.

This is what people may not remember, comparing rental costs with mortgage costs isn't a like for like comparison. Properties need maintenance and insurance and private owners can't claim for those. That's why those buying in my area tend to end up in much smaller housing in shitier areas because they can't afford to buy a property to the same standard as those renting and receiving housing benefit.

It always got to me that when my mum (single and on interest only mortgage) was unemployed, she got her interest paid but couldn't afford to maintain the property. She also got the same job seekers allowance as my step brother who lives at home still. My mum had to pay all her utility bills from that and buy food and fix problems with the house. My step brother is rich as he didn't have any of that.

I say the same thing every time these threads come up but it annoys me so much that sometimes benefits pay more than work. That should never be the case, minimum wage in this country is a joke.

Isn't this what the benefits reform are trying to address though?

Randy yes benefit reform but what is really needed is a significant increase in nmw so it's a living wage and top up benefits are no longer required.

I have a very good friend who I worked with for a couple of years and since then we've kept in touch.
Every year at Christmas she receives approximately £5k from her grandparents. I sometimes mused how nice it would be to have the same, but there's never been any point in getting pissed off about it.

Its quite possible that they have none of the things you consider to be essential the sort of things people don't really talk about and nobody see's

Pension contributions, house insurance stuff like that.

I have a friend who goes on holidays and is able to do it because she's prepared to spend the rest of the year living on Tesco value fish fingers, beans on toast,Iceland 40 for £2 sausages, she also has no pension to pay no house/contents insurance,no carpets or flooring (other than that chipboard stuff that is usually under the carpet) no furniture that she is not able to get for around the £10 mark, her wardrobe gets updated once every 5 years by spending £25 in a charity shop,she routinely has no heating or electric,she walks every where and rarely drinks anything other than water.

Some people manage with different things and on different ammounts of money better than others.
I am good at budgeting and ive never struggled when claiming benefits due to job loss etc. Not because benefits are a massive ammount (and in sorry but i believe very, very few are better off on benefits than working) but because i live in a cheap area and i make good choices with my money. I shop around.

Do you solely use supermarkets? Because i spend so much more if i shop in a supermarket solely. Try dedicating one day a month to having a walk around town and picking things up cheaper than the supermarket

I often find things like jumbo bottles (84 washes) of comfort fabric softener for three or four quid. Buying in bulk can really help. I buy things like washing powder/liquid, softener, dog food and nappies in bulk. Then its out of the way for the month so i do t have to worry about it in the middle of the month when i have a tighter week.

Same for anything food wise. Pasta, meat to freeze (love the reduced section for meat and the butchers offers), tinned goods etc.

I know you weren't specifically asking for advice on that but i hope that helps.

Fwiw benefits are not huge sums of money the maximum anybody (other than working households or those disabled enough to get pip)can get is £500 pw to get anywhere near that on out of work benefits you would need lots of kids or 3 kids and the max LhA.(have excluded CB as I can't remember how much it is).

When you get onto in work benefits that inc LHA/HB the in work income disregard always makes you better off than on out if work benefits the two things that can cut it fine or drop you under are FSM and travel to work costs.

I agree with the point about the OPnot knowing exactly what they'are spending on and what they're not. For a start, with a rental property they aren't going to have buildings insurance to pay, and they won't be maintaining and improving the property or benefiting from any rise in its value.

Also the OPs friend isn't going to be paying into a pension; I pay almost £400 per month into mine, as does my DH so it's easy to see how these costs add up, but we tend to overlook them when making comparisons with other people because its not a tangible thing you can see in the here and now like a holiday or car

Anyway, as has already been said, the real issue here is not your friend OP, but the rubbish system of tax credits which were introduced to prop up the ridiculous gap between NMW and living costs. Of course it should never be the case that not working, or choosing to work fewer hours, can lead to virtually the same money in ones pocket as working. Even the most basic grasp of economics tells us that. But the system is being reformed and that's changing

For now OP, focus on your own life and the fact that in the longer term you will be better off. Tbh when we had dc1, stopping work wasnt an option for me as we needed my income (and this was pre tax credits so no nonsense about getting money for stopping work!) But by the time we had dc2 and had a higher income I chose to continue working even though childcare costs took up all my salary- yes it was a choice, because I knew by then that it was a good decision. Life has a funny way of turning out sometimes: maybe if tax credits had been around then I might have stopped working just as a default position when I had children, and it could have been extremely hard or impossible to get back into my career later.

Anyway hang on in there because the really big expense of childcare will go down once the kids are in school, and then when they get older it disappears altogether. We no longer need childcare for ours and believe me, it's like hitting the jackpot each month

"You are not more worthy of a disposable income just because you work."

I think you are, and I'm a SAHM.

"work costs too much money." So I'll take public money instead?"

No wonder OP and others get so het up when people truly believe they should be better off not working. Morethan, will you still believe that when you start working for your DH due to the new rules on universal credit as you have already started to look into splitting his salary so that you can still claim

OP, you have lots of positives so focus on them. Your child is likely to fair better in life as not on benefits, they will see you can work and parent and therefore have lots of choices and you retain financial independence should life go wrong.

Btw dun holidays are not that good of a deal, I've always done better booking direct.

Person saying their dh is a very high earner but they haven't had a holiday for two years, how come?

YANBU.

I know a family like this too, and it does irritate that they can afford so much for doing so little. It's just fundamentally wrong that we have a situation where our benefit system is so screwed that people can be so much worse of for doing the right thing and paying their own way in life.

It wouldn't be so bad if you did have the guarantee that you'd be better off in the future because of paying a mortgage and a pension, but we don't even have that.

You can't let it get to you though otherwise you drive yourself crazy. Just know that you are the one making the admirable choices in life and are doing the right thing not only for your own family, but for the rest of society too. There is no pride in claiming benefits when you are capable of work and selfishly declaring that it's right for your family, even if you try to convince yourself otherwise.