To have used the disabled loo today :(

[peking]

An embarrassing moment.

Was in our public library when suddenly overcome with an urgent need to go (Crohn's - thought it was under control but I guess Christmas has messed things up).

There were two toilets - one disabled which also held the only nappy-changing facility there, and one toilet on its own. The single toilet was engaged so I dashed into the disabled. I took some time as I felt really shaky and couldn't stand up for a few minutes.

About halfway through I could hear a toddler crying on the other side and the father trying to placate him as he needed his nappy changed. The toddler probably had to wait about 5 mins.

When I finally got out the father shouted after me "you're out of order, you're not even disabled!"

How mortifying. I just had to ignore him but felt awful for the toddler. As many MN'ers have probably come across people taking up the disabled/nappy-changing facilities before, AIBU?

Wouldn't making all toilets accessible exacerbate the problem? If there is one accessible toilet and, say 5, regular cubilcles, then most people will join a short queue to use the regular ones out of courtesy, leaving the accessible one free for the use of a disabled person, should one happen to come along. However, if there were, say 3, accessible toilets in the same space instead, then the disabled person would just have to join the queue, which would be even longer as there would be less toilets for the same amount of people.

I just think that unless you need access to the facilities of an accessible loo, that you don't use them. Needing the loo desperately is different from needing the facilities that are only in accessible toilets.

I have the choice to plan toilet visits, I have the option to take a change of clothes with me, I have the physical ability to change myself if needed. It's been unpleasant sometimes but it's very different from needing a loo with an alarm system because I can't pick myself up off the floor or needing room for a carer because I can't actually get on the loo. Or needing privacy to change a colostomy bag etc.

By opening up access or by putting baby change facilities in accessible toilets, we run the risk of making everyday life impossible for someone who genuinely needs those facilities. Very different from my life being made a little unpleasant on occasion because I may have to wait or ask to push in.

I understand about urgency but that is not why accessible loos exist.

I have also just seen that they are widely available on another shopping website.

OP of course you are not unreasonable.

I am not reading any more as I've seen enough to know the cruel and bigoted replies will be out to play again.

I'm bone tired of having to defend disabled people's right to be in public places. We have that right, just like you, so don't keep trying to take away that right.

I think I'd have said "how do you know you judgemental fool"

YANBU

Peking I have crohns too.
I was in your situation on a regular basis until I had a total colectomy and now my waste goes in a bag on my front. I use the disabled toilet when I am out as it gives me time, privacy (as I know I smell putrid at times) and enables me to relax when I need to go.
You are also entitled to a radar key and a discount on your water rates.
Hope you feel better soon x

I am really pleased by this response by mumsnet.
Finally a comment which actually states that mumsnet believes in equality for disabled people, rather than the usual comments which were ambiguous platitudes that allowed many posters to carry on being disablist and extremely cruel. Finally you have moved towards a positive statement, please keep that up.

"AHEM

Do please look at the This Is My Child info

Lots of posters who are parents of children with disabilities (or who have disabilities themselves) contributed information to it, including accounts of their experiences of using facilities for disabled people.

We'd appreciate it if posters could take a step back and remember that the ability to access such facilities can make a huge difference to the quality of life of disabled people and their families."

And I am sorry but crohns is not having an urgency..... It's crapping yourself with very little warning... Whilst sweating and being in pain

I have Crohns and know what it entails. It doesn't however remove my ability to use standard facilities unlike other conditions.

Blistory It is interesting what you say about changing yourself.

In my experience if you change yourself after you have soiled yourself in other than an accessable toilet then you can have a difficult time with the cramp space. In winter we are talking multiple layers so you need room to put soiled clothes in a bag and bring out new clothes.

You do not have a basin in such a toilet so it is much more difficult to clean up mess by using hot water and soap and dispose of wipes etc.

The smell and movement let everyone else know that you have soiled the toilet - as there is less privacy in typical toilets - whereas an accessible toilet has floor to ceiling doors, or does not have a large gap at the bottom of the door.

You are afforded much more privacy in an accessible toilet.

I have had 10 months post birth where when I sat down on any chair - I needed to use an aid to get up. So your typical toilet cubicle was a nightmare.

So I had embarrassing situations where I went into a normal cubicle but had to lean on unclean sanitary unit or the walls to get myself up and it may have taken many attempts. It really sucked.

I have also and am still suffering from urge incontinence of both types.
So because of this (and yes I try plan trips to the toilet) it can mean I have no warning and risk having an accident, which excuse the pun make me feel like shit! An accessible toilet helps me retain my dignity and privacy.

I often find disabled toilets to be free and also the most accessible - I can not run up a flight of stairs. Strangley enough it may be a london thing but I have not found heavy doors as have found the automatic buttons are a great help. I know where all my local toilets are and also research when I travel anywhere.

As of yet I have not had anyone waiting outside an accessible toilet, but then I research seldom used ones.

I would consider Chrons disease to be a disability. I don't fucking get people who can't even consider that people may have hidden disabilities.

Oh and I have name changed because I still feel a sense of shame due to my birth injury and keep this hidden.

Not once have I ever seen or heard of a healthy adult wetting or soiling themselves in public.

You do know Tena Lady are sold in every major supermarket for a reason? "Not having heard of it" when we're talking an inherently humiliating problem means nothing. You probably don't realise how many people are functionally illiterate, either, because they tend to go to some lengths to disguise the fact - yet it's higher than 1 in 5 of the population of this country. My mother needs to go immediately when she needs to go, as does my husband's stepmother. I'm heavily pregnant and due to birth injuries sustained previously, have poor bladder control at the moment - when I need to go, I need to go. I'm very much hoping this will rectify itself after the birth, but I've already been told I'll probably need surgery post-menopause. And statistically speaking, I'm not exactly in a small group there:

Turkish women.
Estonian women.
Australian women.

I stopped looking at that point. Suffice it to say, as soon as urologists start looking, they find it's a massive problem for post-menopausal women. And I'm pretty sure prostate issues cause the same for men.

Across the population, incontinence is a recognised widespread issue.

I also have SPD which is controlled this pregnancy by doing very little, and I have terrible mobility. I need the grab bars to use the loo easily. I'm pretty sure most people looking at me would think I was just a pregnant woman being precious, but actually I'm a pregnant woman in near constant pain who looks like a woodlouse on its back when trying to get out of bed painlessly. Normal loos can be a problem, in terms of hurting my ligaments when getting up. I need to grab the sink at home at the moment - hoping very much it doesn't fall off the wall!

Crohns is a disability, and entitles someone to need a disabled loo, IMO. A truly difficult pregnancy also causes temporary disability. But even healthy people may suffer urinary incontinence, and saying you've never heard of it simply indicates that the san-pro products so widely sold are effective. Surely you aren't saying people should pee into their TENA Lady rather than use an empty loo, just in case a visibly disabled person might need it in the next few minutes?

I should add that I do NOT think people without disabilities should use disabled loos. Not at all. Just that disabilities or impairments aren't immediately apparent, or permanent, and vary in severity.

*aren't always immediately apparent, or permanent, and vary in severity.

thanks for the post perfect storm. Good luck with your pregnancy.

"Not once have I ever seen or heard of a healthy adult wetting or soiling themselves in public."

That is just outrageous, has an "unhealthy adult" been seen wetting or soiling themselves!! It really doesn't matter.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I wholly agree that you should have used the accessible toilets if you were physically unable to get up. Which is kind of my point.

In terms of need, there really isn't any difference between Crohns, food poisoning, or having a stomach bug. There are undoubtedly many conditions where people have a sudden urge but the fact remains that the default position should be that they use the standard facilities - because they can.

They are not designed to be available for instant access, they are there for people who have no other choice.

And I get that it's difficult to change in a confined space but I managed it in a plane toilet because I have no other underlying health problems.

And to be honest I wouldn't question or judge anyone using an accessible toilet as I would simply assume that they had every right to do so. This thread suggests that I'm wrong on that.

You have Crohns which is a disability when it affects your ability to hold it in! It's horrifying how people feel so free to judge and challenge strangers despite not knowing anything about them or their medical history. I assume that anyone coming out of the disabled toilets has issues, they're entitled not to have to explain that to anybody.

I used to hate the baby changing facilities in our shopping centre, why the fuck did they put them in the disabled toilet???!!! It's not fair for disabled people to have to wait for a babys nappy to be changed, those toilets need to be kept free for those (like you at times) who need them.

yanbu, the man was obnoxious and ignorant, the library was wrong to put the baby changing facilities in the disabled toilets.

Perfect.

FYI

keep a crutch on a low height in grabbing distance at home.it will help you get off the bog without risking your sink, a chair can also help but only if you have room where your bog is.

I use the disabled toilets when using the ladies is impractical. I have epilepsy and have 4 children (7, 6, 4 & 1) so always have a pushchair and at least the baby with me. If I can use the ladies I will but I have to consider what will happen if I have a seizure in a cubicle with an inward opening door (i.e. baby is trapped in the toilet until I come to which could be quite some time).

I'd never use the disabled toilet in our local m&s as they have a large outer area with sinks so plenty of room to leave a pushchair/milling children and an outward opening cubicle so I do make judgement calls on this.

However I have to use the disabled toilet in Asda as you couldn't get a pushchair into the ladies, the cubicles are minuscule (the door practically hits the toilet bowl when you open it) and the baby change room was designed by someone who has not seen a pushchair before so the door opens inwards . I still use the baby change for the baby but it freaks me out as it just wouldn't be possible to get me out in an emergency (I have often changed my babies in their pushchair outside the shop rather than use the changing room).

I still feel like a fraud using the disabled toilet in Asda even though I have (I feel) legitimate reasons to do so. I don't 'look' disabled though and to see me herd the children and drag the pram out of a disabled toilet I suspect most would think I was just lazy.

Blistory I imagine your opinion amongst Crohnies is pretty well unsupported. I can't imagine you've genuinely been in a queue for the loo and got the 10 second warning like I get and have had to say "sorry gels, do you mind awfully if I push in, only I'm about to crap myself". I wouldn't even get as far as "sorry gels".

I can and have used disabled/accessible toilets. I have also queued. I've also used the 'can't wait' card and also made a fuss about using staff toilets in Boots when the town toilets were closed for renovation (yes that's YOU Boots in Ross on Wye). I've also speed and shat down a drain in the dark on the M4 before now.

(stopped not speed - although speed-shat was about the sum of it lol)

Most healthy people may experience a sudden urge due to illness once or twice in public in their entire lives.

Ha ha ha, so funny.

I bought a RADAR key on ebay on the advice of my GP. I resent being called "low" by people who didn't bother to read my post properly. I bought it because I needed it straight away and my GP said it would take weeks to get one the regular way. My need at that time was as great as anyone else's. I couldn't use ordinary toilets because I couldn't get the wheelchair in.

I'd had an operation on my foot and had to use a wheelchair for 8 weeks. I have a medical condition that made the use of crutches for longer than a few seconds impossible without falling over.

Accessible loos are also for people with temporary disabilities, as has been said. If RADAR got their act together people like me wouldn't have to buy keys on ebay and GPs wouldn't have to advise us to. Obviously I haven't used it since.

Those few weeks certainly gave me insight into how difficult it is for wheelchair users to get around even in places that claim to be accessible.

They weren't meaning your post.

Lljjkk bought one on ebay for no reason.

Ah, thanks, Fanjo.

Blistory- the thing about Crohn's is it affects different people in different ways. Have you read my description earlier? In a situation like that I'm heading for the nearest toilet. I wouldn't have time to go into the ladies, see there's a queue, ask if I can jump in, wait for the next available toilet. I don't think I'd even have time to go in, see the queue, and go out again. Yes, I can take a change of clothes with me etc, hell I've even worn giant incontinence pads if I'm putting myself in a situation that i know could be risky (eg plane travel often messes my bowels up) but I'd still rather not actually shit myself if it can be helped at all.

And of course, if I have actually had an accident, I'm going to use the disabled toilet so I can clean myself up (as there's a sink in there).

Fortunately, neither of the above happen very often (I'm extremely lucky that so far, any real urgency has happened when I have been at home or a relative's house).

I'm not going to use the disabled toilet for a wee, or if I just need a poo, but if I am in real danger of having an accident then I will.

And I think food poisoning/stomach bug is slightly different. Both cause diarrhoea, yes. But the problem I have is that my rectum is scarred and/or inflamed at times, which means that it can't hold as much and if it's inflamed, that can cause a sudden evacuation.