to think a serving police officer should not have a conviction for D V

[glasgowsteven]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/cop-jailed-beating-wife-gets-2974444

Self explanatory really

100k in wages, still entitled to a pension, and in law, still a police officer

The link is here maybe people overlooked it for some reason.

The IPCC reports are usually the trigger for National Headline News.

Again this is not info which is hard to find, it is right there on the front page of the BBC whenever there are serious issues found.

No , they're not . The only one where an inquiry was directly disseminated to everyone , was Macpherson . Bits of reports may go to senior management , but almost never to us unless they get referred to in officer safety training or first aid training , as they did for our one for excited delirium, and how to recognise it .

i refer to when news reports quote ipcc findings, i.e. the report on sapphire. you have said that the news do not report accurately.

the news reports i have seen on sapphire's failings quoted the ipcc report directly. what more do you need?

It would be better I think if the results and recommendations were distributed more widely so that people throughout the forces are aware of what's going on and what recommendations have been made to improve. I am surprised that does not happen TBH. How can people improve if they aren't told where there might be issues. The stuff about Sapphire would be food for thought for people involved in sex offences in other forces surely. Whether to help them spot potential areas for improvement, or to reassure that they are not making any of the same mistakes.

What I said was that SOME reports are not accurate . I did not refer to any specific one . Do not credit me with remarks I have not made .

So what do you make of that link about Sapphire?

I have also said previously that where there are failings , then those responsible need to be held to account . More than once . Just because I don't read everything police related in the news , do not make the mistake of thinking I don't care .

the ipcc no less have pointed to structural failings in the police as regards how rape complaints are handled and investigated. again, structural failings, not one or two rogue officers, though certainly the actions of rogue officers have helped to expose the issue.

it makes national news. repeatedly.

but, it is a different police service. you are tired. everyone you know wotks hard. anyway, you can't be expected to read, or give a shit. the ipcc may well be making it up, we know how newsreports ( particularly whenreported by a variety of organs across the political spectrum) can lack accuracy.

and maybe if it bothers me so much, i should join the police or volunteer insome capacity

is that about right?

move along,nothing to see here,indeed

Nicetabbard I'm familiar with saphire unit and Reid and the other related cases, they are horrific, I don't think any officer worth their salt would ever argue that the saphire unit was an incredibly damaging unit that impacted strongly on the confidence of the community. Dealing with any sexual based crime whether an adult or a child is incredibly difficult, and often particularly with children can be more traumatic on the victim than the offender who often picks his victim knowing how vulnerable they are and how unlikely they are to give evidence. I can remember how horrifically we used to desk with victims back in the early 90s and looking at the huge improvements now I feel we are just starting to get there. But that is due to the bravery of victims who said you got it wrong! You should do this! You need to do this! In my force we have a suite where a person walks in one door is examined by a specialist doctor with a support nurse they move to another room where they can bathe for as long as they need, then they are given clean clothes then they can move into a sitting room where they can talk or remain silent or cry or rage whatever they need. And when they are ready, IF they are ready, then they can disclose on DVD so they never need to physically enter the same room as their attacker. They then leave from a different door never entering the same rooms they have been in. Things are changing, the modern police service is changing because people are telling us too and we are listening.

"Out of interest , do you think that other critical professions should be publicly held to account , or is it only the police ? "

Why would you even think otherwise?

Why would anyone not want any other profession which deals with the public and can cause massive damage to individuals, not publicly held to account?

What is this defensiveness about?

I bet a tenner no one here would say "I want the police to be held to account but no other profession". Why would anyone propose that?

There may be too many nots there.

Just to be clear, I think all police officers should be decent unscrupulously honest and kind. I think all officers who fall short of that standard should be dealt with either by retraining, or by being fired. But I don't know every single p

caketinrosie the failings of the Sapphire unit were nothing to do with the vulnerability of victims or the difficulty in taking these types of cases forward.

You talk about the Sapphire stuff in the past tense, as if everything that went wrong was a long time ago and issues have been resolved. That's not the case though. It is current.

Police officer (damn this phone) but I know my team and they are. All of them. They are funny kind and work hard but sometimes take too long to finish a job but I will let them off for that.

It also should not be down to rape victims to somehow ascertain that for eg a police officer has closed their case without bothering to investigate, root out institutional failings, make a big fuss about it and bring the police to account. That is totally back to front. The public should not be working on the assumption that the police have no interest in investigating crime and proceed on that assumption. What kind of way is that to proceed.

The investigation into sapphire relates to failings within the unit between July 2008 and September 2009 ipcc website. Just looked.

Cases like Jean Charles Menezes and Ian Tomlinson -the ONLY reason the police ended up being found out for their lies and incompetence were because their families were utterly tenacious and wouldn't let it drop, even when faced with lies about their family members by the police.

It should not be the case that where a person has no family, or a family who are not prepared or able to spend enormous amounts of time and money, the police can get away with murder.

you say that as though it is ancient history

to be fair, it could be, if police read the damn report, audited their own practices, implemented recommendations and just generally did better, rather than veing defensive and meeting criticism with deflections

Oh for crying out loud.

The link is from 26 Feb 13 and quotes an IPCC person. At that date there had been nine IPCC investigations into the Sapphire unit.

You haven't even read the link have you.

When I was challenged upthread about a case in the news in the last 2 weeks that put the police in a bad light, Google came up with a case from 19 December which involved mistakes in a rape case handled by the Met, and has been referred to the IPCC. Not the Sapphire unit. But still, doesn't sound like "lessons have been learned" to me.

Re the Tomlinson case wasn't that the one where the officer was charged with manslaughter? Acquitted in court by a jury. Oh and then he was still fired. So other than hanging him what else could be done?

This comment from the link is pertinent:

"The scandal is twofold, writes Channel 4 News Home Affairs Correspondent Simon Israel. First, the practice of persuading potential victims to retract their statements to boost detection rates is nothing short of cheating the system. We do not know how prevalent this was. The IPCC doesn't know the scale of this practice back in 2008- 2009 but Southwark went from one of the worst-performing Sapphire areas to one of best. It tripled its detection rates from 10 to 30 per cent, yet no one in the Met queried this sudden leap.
The senior officer operating this policy retired before the IPCC inquiry has even started. A detective sergeant is facing gross miconduct charges but no one is sure if that will ever see the light of day.
And that is the other half of the scandal: lack of accountability. We learned today that in another Sapphire case involving the failure to capture the serial rapist Kirk Reid, not a single senior officer faced gross misconduct hearings despite IPCC pressure.
If the Met wants to gain victims' confidence, accountability is key."

Honestly it's worth reading that link for people who are interested in any of this. It's C4 news and carries details of IPCC findings so is reliable I would think.

It's more reliable to read the ipcc website rather than Simon Israel from ch 4 news? I think it's more factual less emotive. Off to watch Sherlock. Be back soon

caketinrosie if a tourist hadn't videoed the police officer who assaulted Ian Tomlinson on a mobile phone this case would never have come to light, and there would have been no court case.

The police initially claimed that Ian Tomlinson had fallen over, and some lied to the pathologist. The whole thing was (rightfully) a scandal.

Top google link here and one from 2009 here.

What do I think should have been done? I think the police should not have lied about what happened, and I don't think they should have lied to his family, or to the pathologist. I don't think they should have ignored the police officers who raised concerns over what they had seen. I don't think he should have been killed. And as a general point I think that police who remove their ID numbers or cover them up in these types of situations should be disciplined. If anyone can work out who they are