to think my 14-year-old stepDD really should be able to take the bus/train on her own to visit us?

[cinnamontoast]

DH complains about having to drive a round trip of nearly 400 miles in the school holidays to bring her down to visit, but won't contemplate her using public transport. At her age I was happily getting the train on my own to visit relatives at the other end of the country - and I didn't have a mobile. Surely learning to travel independently is an important life skill?

My DH does a 400 mile round trip every fortnight to pick up his DD. It takes 2.5 hours there (he leaves at 5 on Friday), and are normally home by around 10.30 ish. He does the same trip on a Sunday evening to take her home again. I can't see how it can take your DH 4 hours to drive 200 miles although I guess that depends entirely on the road network to and from. I wouldn't let a 14 year old travel on their own unless they were very sensible and actually wanted to do it.

green - so he manages 200 miles in 2.5 hours in the friday night rush hour?? that's averaging 80 miles an hour!

it's much more likely/reasonable that 200 miles would take 4hrs, averaging 50mph!

we regularly travel 210miles from kent to west mids and the quickest we have ever done it, in all clear weather and no holdups is 3.25 hours and that's only with 5 miles on non-motorway at each end.

Greenmug, it takes us 4 1/2 hours minimum to drive from SE London to the Wirral, more like 6+ on a Friday. That's quite a trek every weekend.

Haven't read the full thread.....

But, surely if is just a train ride there is no problem?? A 14 year should be able to manage this fine?? I was getting trains on my eon from the age of about 12 - what's the big deal? As someone has said, if it's a case of getting on a train one end and off it at another what difference does it make if it's 10 miles or 200?

Don't some parents put children on airplanes on their own.

However, I so agree that if it involves buses and trains and lots of change overs then I do think it could be quite daunting for her and she may need a chaperone with her a few tines until she feels comfortable doing it on her own.

'pixiepotter - why do you think that a 16/17 would be better equipped to use public transport? Being equipped to deal with someting is not something that age magically bestows on you, but something that comes with experience.'

and people have more life experience and maturity at 17 than 13 and so can use this to exercise better judgment aS well as appearing less vulnerable to a would be pick pocket, muggger or abuser

OP doesn't say weekends, it's in the school holidays. No mention of how many times a year.

How do people live with this assumption that every second person is a pickpocket, mugger or abuser?

pixie - but that's my point - denying children/teenagers experience until they've got more experience, is a non-starter, as they can't gain it in the first place.

I don't think a 16 year old (or 36 year old for that matter) is any less vulnerable to pickpockets than a 14 year old.

How do people live with this assumption that every second person is a pickpocket, mugger or abuser?

People tend to overestimate the incidence of crime, because the underestimate how people people they are only one remove from. So they hear that a friend of a friend has been a victim of crime (in my case, that a friend of a friend was abducted and killed by a serial killer) and don't realise just how many people are "friends of friends" (for a reasonably socially connected adult, probably tens of thousands).

I figured out how many people were "friends of friends" in the same way as the victim in question, and how long I'd been aware of what happened to these "friends of friends", and reckoned that it probably equated to ten to fifteen thousand people at any one time over the course of thirty years. Given the risk of murder by a stranger is about one in a million per year, then that over the course of my life one friend of a friend has been murdered isn't actually that out of line with the base incidence. But a lot of people would hear that a friend of a friend had been murdered, and deduce that it was quite a common event.

I think it depends on the individual. I flew to Italy to visit my sister alone at that age and loved it, I felt very grown up! If she'd enjoy it then it'd be a win win. But some of my friends avoid travelling anywhere alone, even as adults, so it really depends.

widow, a 14 yo may not be any more susceptible to a pickpocket than anyone else, but would they have the confidence, or gumption to shout, make a fuss/call for help? they might also be more engrossed in their music/kindle/phone and not be aware of whats going on around them. what if they did not notice the theft till afterwards when they suddenly realised they are stuck alone far from home with no purse/phone? as adults we can think on the spot and come up with a plan. I had my purse nicked at uni - I had no cash, no cards, at all. this was before mobile phones. luckily I had a friend around to lend me money for the phone and for lunch! I was 19 but it still upset me! I was living walking distance from my bank but it still took several days to sort out.

no one is saying that every other person is a mugger or groper BUT it is possible, and on public transport, in crowds, where pushing against people can be passed off as totally innocent/unavoidable, it happens a lot.

a mature women might be too embarrassed to say anything about being groped on the tube, she might just feel revolted and embarrassed/angry, but not want to cause a scene. But for most 13/14 yr olds, without a wealth of emotional intelligence or experience of sexual encounters, it would be really horrid and they would be scared and upset, and embarrassed to make a scene in public. horrid things like this affect people years on, as I am sure we have all seen on this board.

How do people live with this assumption that every second person is a pickpocket, mugger or abuser?

I have no idea, it must be absolutley exhausing worrying about these things so much! I think the best way is to be sensible, but to generally assume that the vast majority of people are normal, because tbh they are!

And surely that's the best way to teach kids to be too, you can be sensible about doing new things without being paranoid - if children aren't given the opportunity to gain life skills they won't magically wake up with them at 16/18/21

phantomnamechanger although I agree your example of someone being groped on the tube might provoke a different reaction it's also more likely not to happen than it is to happen - I'd rather go about life not assuming that something awful will happen than paranoid that it will

a mature women might be too embarrassed to say anything about being groped on the tube, she might just feel revolted and embarrassed/angry, but not want to cause a scene. But for most 13/14 yr olds, without a wealth of emotional intelligence or experience of sexual encounters, it would be really horrid and they would be scared and upset,

So that's the buses and the tube out. How do teenage children in London who aren't in walking distance get to school?

And even taking on board the issue of sexual harassment on crush-loaded urban transport, it's significant distance from that to an off-peak intercity train, wouldn't you say?

I don't assume that people are bad but these things do happen. A teenage girl is probably more venerable than most. As I have said, I have been sexually harassed/assaulted on more than one occasion on public transport, all as a teenager.

Vulnerable

This thread is akin to a poster saying my dd is walking at 12 months but my friends dd isn't walking yet!

It dies t matter if you back packed around India alone at 11 or your kids travel thousands of miles by air/sea/train or bloody rocket does it?

Some are independent and confident at 14 and some are not.

They all get there in the end unless there is a problem.

What's the big hurry? What's with the preening of my child can so why can't yours!

Pathetic show boating and daft too.

This thread is akin to a poster saying my dd is walking at 12 months but my friends dd isn't walking yet!

No it isn't. It's akin to people saying that they don't let their child walk because they might fall over, and it's much better if you just keep them in a pram for a few months more.

There's been some of that Friday, but an awful lot of 'I did/my DC can....' as well.

I'm not "preening". I am just saying that it is perfectly normal for a 14 year old, after proper preparation to be able to sit on a train for a 200 mile journey and be met at the other end. People are behaving as if it's an extraordinary and dangerous thing to do, and the OP is being a wicked, neglectful stepmother to even suggest it. Which is clearly bonkers. Because, apart from anything else, she is much, much safer in the train than she is in the car. Much.

And it is also not unreasonable to suggest that a 14 year old be aware of other people putting themselves out for her, and to consider ways in which she might be able to make family life easier. That does not mean forcing her to do anything she is unwilling to to. But by 14, they should be thinking about how their actions affect other people. They are not young children any more. Encouraging them to spead their wings, and to be mindful of others is a good thing.

That's all. Nothing more.

"a mature women might be too embarrassed to say anything about being groped on the tube, she might just feel revolted and embarrassed/angry, but not want to cause a scene. But for most 13/14 yr olds, without a wealth of emotional intelligence or experience of sexual encounters, it would be really horrid and they would be scared and upset, and embarrassed to make a scene in public. horrid things like this affect people years on, as I am sure we have all seen on this board."

This kind of assumes bringing up a child scared of the world, and curtailing their independence until some magical age at which they are suddenly deemed to be able to cope, is entirely without consequence. Well, it isn't. Everything you do/don't let or encourage a child to do has risks attached to it. Intelligent adults do a reasonable risk assessment and, if the risk is not too great, give a child coping strategies and encourage them to get on with it. And, in the last resort, they are always there to pick up the pieces.

This thread, coupled with the anxious parents (mainly mothers) who are hanging on every detail and update from UCAS from their nearly adult (and in some case adult) children, makes me fearful of the resilience of the upcoming generation. The gift of resilience and risk assessment is one of the most valuable any parent can give a child. The vicarious over investment of some parents is stifling.

friday my 14 year old dd would not be able to do this journey. She would be too nervous. Is that not ok with you? What the fuck is your point here?

What are you in about? Are you the that parent that pushes your child into the water because they are scared to jump?

I seriously don't see your point at all.

outraged yes there has been smug preening here.

curlew I haven't seen or said its wicked and dangerous for a 14 year old to do this? Who has? If your dc can then great.

By your reasoning there are set in stone milestones that children should reach at the same time which is clearly stupid.

One if my kids walked at 11 months and one at 19 months.

I didn't try to force the one to walk before she was ready?

Why would you force a child who is scared to do something that really isn't imperative/ life saving.

If she doesn't have to change then it doesn't matter if it's 2 miles or 20 or 200 - someone can make sure she gets on the right train at the beginning, and someone else can collect her at the end. Easy.

If she does have to change, then the first time she does it, someone should go meet her from train #1, and then get her to navigate from train #1 to train #2 and all subsequent trains. It will be fine, she will feel confident that she can get from one train to another, and then the next time she can do it by herself.

I used to fly unaccompanied to America to see my dad when I was 11. I'd have loved to have the extra time with him though. One-on-one time with the non-resident parent can feel like gold dust to a child.

"friday my 14 year old dd would not be able to do this journey. She would be too nervous. Is that not ok with you? What the fuck is your point here?"

Well, probably not if she's never done anything like that before. But in 3 months time? After doing it with somebody all the way a couple of times, then being met hqlf way........?

Nobody's saying shove her in at the deep and.....