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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I being unreasonable? Christmas, ex, and my mum

211 replies

oldbaghere · 17/12/2013 11:42

Issue from my other thread but I am raging and may have lost perspective.

My mum is terminal. Pancreatic cancer diagnosed yesterday.

Asked my ex if he would swap and let me have the kids on chrostmas day.

He consulted with his family and says no.

Aibu to think that's totally unfair and he is a cunt?

His SIL had to be consulted. She does year about. She said no and refused to swap, apparently.

OP posts:
QuickQuickSloe · 19/12/2013 19:46

I am very sorry to hear about your mum, I hope you can have a precious memory making day together and enjoy a wider family Boxing Day.

IneedAsockamnesty · 19/12/2013 19:47

Bruthas,

I had a thought earlier the ops ex could get together with your dh's ex. They are very suited and it would be funny as fuck

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/12/2013 19:59

I do think the adult children should decide where they want to spend christmas, they are adults after all.

As for your ex, we only have your side of the story. If you consider it a "favour" to let him see them on non contact days then its little wonder he is inflexible. The children should be free to spend time with either parent when they choose to, they are not "owned" by anybody.

TBH, you are both seeing the children on Christmas day so the children get to spend time with both of their parents and any extended family each side chooses. Surely thats the fairest way anyway?

starofbethlehemfishmummy · 19/12/2013 19:59

Teens and twenties?
Surely the twenty something(s) can make up their own minds then?

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 19/12/2013 20:14

OP my advice was to take control of what you can and not worry about what you can't. Basically avoid unnecessary drama for your mother's sake. You're obviously unwilling to consider that that may be a better solution but that doesn't make me a heartless person. My advice is still avoid getting too caught up in the specifics of Xmas day.

I haven't lost my mother thank goodness but I lost my grandma at a similar to your kids and it was horrible. I hope are able to enjoy the time with your mum without letting a row sour things.

Original poster
oldbaghere · 19/12/2013 20:20

Ghoul with respect and I really don't mean this badly.

You have no idea. Until you are facing this, you truly have no idea.

HappyMummyofOne - I do consider it a favour when I've planned a lunch with MY FAMILY and he wants to have them. I DO consider that a favour.

As far as only having my side of the story, yes that is true. But trust me, there is a lot more to this than just this one event. If that was the most useful thing you could think to post, why did you bother?

Yes it's a favour when he rings me on "his" day and he's an hour away and can't pick them up from where he's supposed to and will I go and get them. Yes it is a favour when I'm on my weekend "off" but he has to work so they are dropped on me with no notice and I have to change my plans. Yes it's a favour when he wants me to traipse the town on MY time to buy them an outfit for a wedding I'm not even invited to.

Are you generally hard of thinking?

OP posts:
GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 19/12/2013 20:41

I'm stepping away from this thread now. I didn't intend to wind you up or defend your ex. All I wanted to point out was that if this turns into a big bust up it could sour your time with your mum and your future relationship with your kids. I was urging caution and finding the best way though rather than taking on a battle you probably won't win.

I'm going to hide thread as my considered and more measured advice is obviously not what you want to hear.

I am genuinely sorry about your mum.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 19/12/2013 20:50

Ghoul is still missing the point. There is no big bust up as OP will have her day as it looks to be panning out and everyone will try their best to have a good day. She will not let rip at her ex in front of anyone and everyone will carry on and then live with the regrets - or not - later.

Original poster
oldbaghere · 19/12/2013 20:58

Thank you Toffee, that's it. There isn't going to be a big bust up - I wouldn't do that to my kids or to my mum and dad. Losing a grandma is not the same. I've lost two. And trust me, it is not the same.

I will do the right thing because that's the type of person I am. Just because I am venting on here doesn't mean I am venting (other than to close friends) in RL.

What I won't do is forget.

OP posts:
Andro · 19/12/2013 20:59

I too think that (certainly the adult) dc need to know how upset their grandmother was/is, it's the kind of ting that can be revealed inadvertently - or even thrown out in the throes of grief.

My other concern is for the OP's dc, what kind of emotional impact is it going to have when they realise that their father is an EA ass with the empathy and compassion of a dumper truck? How damaging is it going to be for them if/when they realise just how thoroughly they've crapped on people who (unless they share their father's personality traits) they know adore/d them? A quick scroll through the relationships board in general and the stately homes thread in particular is clear evidence of the long term damage caused by actions like the OP's ex is engaging in.

OP, I wish you strength and the best Christmas you are able to create.

Original poster
oldbaghere · 19/12/2013 21:08

The probolem is the adult DC are far enough away that they won't be home until Christmas Eve. So the first opportunity I really get to talk to them face to face will be Christmas Day.

I am just going to grit my teeth and grin and bear it.

But please anyone dealing with a man like this, please please don't do what I did because really you do yourself no favours in the long run.

OP posts:
Andro · 19/12/2013 21:13

It doesn't need to be face to face OP, it just needs to be calm and in the 'you need to this so that you can be prepared' format.

With that said, you know your dc and the rest of us don't so you have to go with your instincts.

BruthasTortoise · 19/12/2013 21:26

Jeez sock I don't think either I or the OP could cope with double the trouble Grin

TalkativeJim · 19/12/2013 21:27

I quite like get fucked too actually.

It's strangely unemotional too.

Him: 'I would like to request that the children can be with me on x Weekend blah blah blah long involved supercilious text'

OP: get fucked

Not even a capital letter. Not a punctuation mark wasted on him.

get fucked

Vivacia · 19/12/2013 21:38

OP, this sounds terrible, terrible news for you and your mum to have received. It would make me feel so angry as well as upset. I do wonder if you are directing some of this anger towards your children and ex?

He's being incredibly unreasonable by refusing to be flexible. However, I think you are both being unreasonable for involving the children in this. He by getting them to phone their grandmother and you for telling them that you'd find it very difficult to forgive them not spending Christmas Day with their grandmother.

I don't understand why grown ups are being dropped off at 8 (or 6 by mistake) so that they can get a good night's sleep. I don't understand why they aren't making their own plans for Christmas involving friends and boy/girlfriends' families as well as their own.

I agree with ghoul that I'd be taking power and influence away from your ex by not making Christmas Day the major thing. Make it one of a few important, happy days over the Christmas period.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 19/12/2013 21:41

If you don't tell the children how upset your Mum is at the thought of not seeing them, will they be devastated afterwards? They shouldn't need telling they should be with Granny but as they appear immature maybe they need it pointing out the regrets they might have?

Vivacia · 19/12/2013 21:45

I'm sure these children and adults have a close and loving relationship with their grandmother, given how the OP feels they should spend Christmas with her, so their behaviour is puzzling.

However it's not necessarily a sign of immaturity to not want to spend time with a grandparent.

Andro · 19/12/2013 21:46

I don't understand why grown ups are being dropped off at 8 (or 6 by mistake) so that they can get a good night's sleep. I don't understand why they aren't making their own plans for Christmas involving friends and boy/girlfriends' families as well as their own.

Going on what OP had said in the course of the thread, it's because they've been so conditioned by an EA prick of a father that they are scared of what will happen if he doesn't get 'his' time. The 8pm drop off is a hold over from/part of the contact arrangement for older and younger ones respectively.

Vivacia · 19/12/2013 21:56

If that's right Andro then that's terrible for the children. Why would you go along with that? (Other adults I mean, not the "children").

Flatassantassacks · 19/12/2013 21:58

I haven't read every single post but I cannot abide when people say 'I lost my grandma' and I was in bits like you. Yeah with all due respect losing a. Grandparent is horrible. Losing a parent? Until recently I knew how this felt and a 'friend' insists on trying to match it up with her losing her grandad last year. She lost her grandad at 34, I lost my dad at 34.

It's not a competition but until you actually go through, you can't know how it feels so don't try to by saying you do.

sorry I digress. Just a pet hate.

OP I'm with the majority, fuck him.

Sorry about your mum.

Andro · 19/12/2013 22:09

Speaking from my own experience (my mother is beyond toxic) people outside their trusted inner circle just don't know; my father is under no illusions and will not accept her behaviour, but extended family/friends/acquaintances outside of her inner circle believe she is the wonderful, caring, engaged society matriarch she appears to be. Not a single member of her normal social circle would believe me if I told them she regret having me, thinks I'm a freak, thought it was funny when one of my brothers nearly killed me or any of the other things she's done over the years. People like this are adept at playing the 'game', appearances can be very deceiving.

The trusted inner circle are as toxic as the person him or herself and/or cowed by the strength of toxic person's personality.

Vivacia · 19/12/2013 22:12

I get that, I was kind of thinking of the OP.

MoominMammasHandbag · 19/12/2013 22:32

OP I really think you should be addressing a portion of your righteous anger towards your adult children. They are being pretty spineless to be honest, either that or pretty callous. They are adults, it is up to them where they spend Christmas Day; they shouldn't be hiding behind the excuse that Daddy made them do it.

PenelopePipPop · 19/12/2013 22:34

"Going on what OP had said in the course of the thread, it's because they've been so conditioned by an EA prick of a father that they are scared of what will happen if he doesn't get 'his' time. The 8pm drop off is a hold over from/part of the contact arrangement for older and younger ones respectively."

This.

Which is why accusing the children of immaturity or demanding they 'know' the impact of the situation misses the point. They almost certainly know but what are they meant to do when caught between an abuser on one side and two hurting people on the other. We don't empower people who may be victims of abuse by ramping up the bullying on both sides. We empower them by letting them know we respect their choices and will love them no matter what - which the OP and her mother very clearly do.

If the ex here has been being a twat about access for years and years they may have suffered a lot of hurt about these arrangements already - children always always always know when there are petty squabbles between adults about who pays for what, or who will be where when and it always hurts. Because the message they get is that for Dad scoring points over Mum counts more to him than being with them. So they redouble their efforts to please Dad. Which will never work because actually this isn't about them. A man who lacks the compassion to say 'I'm so sorry about this terrible news. Of course you need to spend Christmas together' will never be able to place his children's needs ahead of his own. His children however, have spend decades trying to put his needs ahead of theirs to get him to love them.

The morally right thing for the children to do may be to say 'Dad this Chrismas we need to be with Mum and Grandma'. But they can only do the right thing if they know the OP's got their back and will understand if that is too hard. Not because she's furious and hurting too.

Andro · 19/12/2013 23:14

I was kind of thinking of the OP.

She didn't go along with it, she extricated herself from the relationship and has tried to protect her children as much as possible in the best way she knew how. Unfortunately, the courts don't seem to realise how damaging contact with an EA parent can be and/or only see the good side of the person in court (ditto SS etc) so contact is deemed beneficial and an order made. The OP has complied with the order and been reasonable about other important events - these are the acts of a good parent and she can't be faulted for them - the kicker is that her ex defines unreasonable and there's little she can do (other than pick up the pieces when her DC figure out that they fairly effectively pooped all over their hurting mother and grandfather as well as their dying grandmother).