Am I being unreasonable? Christmas, ex, and my mum

[oldbaghere]

Issue from my other thread but I am raging and may have lost perspective.

My mum is terminal. Pancreatic cancer diagnosed yesterday.

Asked my ex if he would swap and let me have the kids on chrostmas day.

He consulted with his family and says no.

Aibu to think that's totally unfair and he is a cunt?

His SIL had to be consulted. She does year about. She said no and refused to swap, apparently.

It all does seem a bit odd, I have grown up DC and I know what they would do.
They'd tell their Dad they would see him on Boxing day.
I don't really see how you can dictate if they will see him on any weekend though, mine come and go as they please and don't see us on any set dates (except birthdays and Christmases).
I suppose if the teenagers are young teens then you can say what and where they will be but not someone in their twenties surely.

And I should have said I hope your Mum has a lovely Christmas and boxing day with you all.
We've had some cancer in the family this last few years and it's a difficult time for everyone.

The grandmother cried when told her grandkids wouldn't be there for her last Christmas.

It isn't a "relatively few hours" for this dying grandmother. It's important to her. That's what matters.

Agree with those saying Op should lay it out to the children. They're teens/adults, old enough to knowingly choose for themselves.

My kids would want to know, in time to do the right thing. For heaven's sake, what will next Christmas be like with the grandfather, who will likely remember and regret that they didn't share his wife's last Christmas.

I say this as someone who's not even a member of the dominant religion so Christmas wouldn't matter in our family. But for most, it's the one time of year when every possible service and institution is closed so families can come together. Its the major cultural sentimental family gathering time.

The ex has no compassion. But these are not powerless young children, they're teens and adults. You can't always protect them.

It's the dying gran who matters here. I'd hope her grandchildren would want the time and the memories with her. Their father's family will have other Christmases with them.

ljny - your post is very eloquent and summarises the situation well. However, where the children go on Xmas Day is outside of the OP's power and control. I still think she should take the focus off Xmas Day and concentrate on what is in her power; enjoying her last Xmas with her mum and doing something with the wider family in the evening / on Boxing Day. Any upset now directed towards the ex and the children is actually counterproductive and it is tarnishing OP's mum's last Christmas when it doesn't need to.

So sad about your Mum and I hope you're holding up and enjoy your time with her.

The problem seems to be with your children who are older, at the ages they are now I would expect them to want to spend time with their grandmother at Xmas considering the circumstances.

Actually ghoul, I think the OP's DC need to see that upset. They need to see and understand the effect their decision, along with their dad and his family, is affecting the OP. Bugger the 'making the best of things' to minimise their guilt. Sometimes, there are things that really, really matter, and it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend otherwise. Making the best of your last Xmas when you know the people who matter most to you, don't think your last xmas is of enough importance to them to be there, means the 'making the best of it' will still hurt. It'll cause enormous hurt to that poor woman, who is going to have enough fucking pain to deal with in the coming weeks. It'll hurt their GF. Their mum. None of that hurt can be justified at all. And they all need to know that.

These children are all old enough (including teenagers) to be making their own decisions about how they spend their time over Christmas without the op and her ex arranging contact times surely??

That is too much pressure to put on young people who are losing their grandma. From what I've read here they don't want to be horrible they just want to have the Christmas they'd planned with their dad. Causing a family row over this, rather than making the best of it, is surely going to upset OP's mum a lot more than accepting that the children have plans for part of Christmas and will be there for their grandma when they can.

OP - this situation sounds awful. But speaking as the adult child of divorced parents please don't tear your adult children off a strip about what they should do. You say he is emotionally abusive of you. Perhaps he is emotionally abusive of them too. Being caught between their feelings for their dying grandmother, their acutely distressed mother and their bullying father must be really hard for them. That hardship is redoubled by the fact this is Christmas and will be your mother's last one. They cannot be in two places at once. They have had years of their Dad telling him he wants them at a specific time and place and them feeling they have to jump to it. They have not stood up to him before, and they may be shocked and hurting too. This is not the easiest time for them to start asserting themselves now. My own Dad can be a terrible bully when he doesn't get his way and the fallout can rumble on for months and months so even when you think it has been forgotten about you'll get a nasty email reminding you of the time you let him down by not doing something he wanted.

But it will not be your mother's last chance to see the grandchildren she loves and cares about. Even a few weeks gives a lot of time for loving and sharing and creating the memories that will help you all when she has died and you need to support each other. If your memories are dominated by arguments and pain that will help none of you.

Your ex is an insensitive bastard. But don't let his lack of compassion hurt you and your children more than it has to.

Forget him. Focus on the days you will all be together and how you can make them really meaningful for all of you. Are there meals your mother used to cook or films you all enjoyed watching together or places you went to with them as children or board games or daft family traditions you can share then?

I replied to your other OP so you know my children lost their father on Friday.

Pretty much everyone wants to spend Xmas day with my boys. I want them here because they are going to be devastated and I want to keep an eye on them. Their step mum wants them as she wants to be around them loads as it is her connection to their dad. Grandparents and so on.

So we all worked together to find a way around that we can all be happy with, asking the children for their opinions too, obviously and without making them feel like they were being pulled in every direction.

We thought this would be his last Xmas but he went fast. The plan was that they were going to spend all of Xmas with him and while I wanted to see them, I more than understood the importance of spending the last xmas with someone dying, and thankfully, so did my children. Who's turn it is becomes irrelevant when someone is dying.

However, mine are young. If they were older than they are it would be completely their decision and they would get to decide full stop.

Firstly, My sympathy on your mom. Horrible, horrible news for you all.

I would agree about talking to your children about the reality of the situation. Tell them how important this is to their grandmother and now is the time to show her how much she matters. 100% agree with the poster who said that you need to tell them what you expect of them.

They're really not all children and are old enough to put others first -even on christmas day. they will have others. your mom won't.

I am so so sorry to hear about your mum. And so angry at your ex. When you have been told you have less that 100 days left none of them become 'just' a day FFS.

IMO Ghoul you're coming across not so much as 'cold, hateful, insult blah blah' just 'not getting it.'

Woah left page open for too long sorry!

I am sorry for yours and your children's loss SamU2.

You're right SpecialAgent, I don't get it. Much better to have a big family, Xmas showdown over this so the OP's mum's last through months are overshadowed by a family feud. Much better than my suggestion of OP having a wonderful Xmas with her parents and getting together with her children on Boxing Day!!!

Ghoul - The children want to go there, possibly partly to take their minds off things with their grandma.

See, why should they have their minds taken off things with their grandma? That's exactly where their minds should be.
Death has to be faced and giving comfort to people in their last days should be a priority.

So they shouldn't have any fun over Christmas or indeed at all while their grandma is ill? These are young people some are still children. Why shouldn't they have the fun day they've planned with their dad. I'm sure their grandma is never far from their minds , but it doesn't mean they can't have any fun at all.

Actually, I think Ghoul has a good point.

At this point, as hard as it may be, try to drop the argument and make another day special.

My children's father's last wish was to see our children have fun. He told me that he wanted them to continue to do their school play's, continue to dance in their competition if they felt up to it. It was very important to him. He did want to see them all over Xmas but he would never had not wanted them to miss a fun occasion when he was dying, he wanted them to have those last few weeks having some nice times (as nice as you can possibly have) knowing full well the upcoming months were to be devastating.

So I think I have changed my opinion.

While the OP's children should make time for their grandparent I also don't see too much of a problem with them making special memories and spending time with her another day and having one day where they get to be just kids/ young adults having fun.

plays... not play's.

'So they shouldn't have any fun over Christmas or indeed at all while their grandma is ill?'

Hmmm. You see I'm kind of with you Ghoul or at least I don't think it is as easy as the children should be with their mother and grandmother and that is definitely the choice they should make. This a fraught time. Feelings are running high. There is clearly a history here. Putting a lot of pressure on won't lead to better choices but it may cause hurt feelings.

But I don't think your argument about fun makes any sense. Of course the children could have fun if they spent Christmas Day with their mother and grandmother. It sounds like that is exactly what she wants. And they are teens and adults. Hopefully they won't really be thinking 'Well it is my last chance to spend Christmas with Granny but I'll be on the XBox from 7am at Dads so I'll go there'

It is really sad. But I do wonder if it would be better if the OP said 'I would love you to spend the day with us because it is the last time we will all be together. I know you also have a commitment to your Dad. I think you are old enough to make your own arrangements so I'm not going to interfere or judge because I know its tough being torn in two directions. Obviously if you spend the day with your Dad I'd really like it if we could all have a day together to celebrate Christmas with Grandma on Boxing Day so we can make this time as special as possible for her.'

Then the choice is there. It is a lot less frightening for them. They are not suddenly responsible for the feelings of loads of other adults. They are only responsible for themselves.

So they shouldn't have any fun over Christmas or indeed at all while their grandma is ill? These are young people some are still children. Why shouldn't they have the fun day they've planned with their dad. I'm sure their grandma is never far from their minds , but it doesn't mean they can't have any fun at all.

Just because their grandma is dying it doesn't mean it has to be doom and gloom.
No-one is saying sit in a darkened room and don't speak!

Have you ever been in a hospice? It can be light, bright and joyous. If the OP's mum is anything like my mum (who died just after Christmas, when I was in my early 20s) she wants a 'normal' Christmas. Whatever that means in the OP's family.
For us, it was presents, Bing Crosby on the stereo, roast turkey, Christmas telly, card games, turkey sandwiches and all of us together for the last time, including my DB, DSiL and their young family. My uncle popped round to help carry her downstairs.
Boxing day was with their friends as they'd always done.

No doom, no gloom and no direct talking of the situation. Though to be fair, as far as I know, it was only me, DB and his wife who really knew how bad it was as I was the one who had the 'conversation' with the consultant to spare my dad. (and I was younger than the OP's son at the time).

So, no reason it shouldn't be a happy time that they can all look back on fondly.
Sometimes, people just need to do the Right Thing.

Nanny - That does sound lovely and I'm glad to hear that you and your mum were able to enjoy her last Christmas like that.

OP my heart goes out to you and I totally understand why you are feeling so angry. At the start of this thread you were asked if you could appeal to your ex mil and ex SIL. I think this is the way to go to be honest.

Also, how poorly is your mum? Is it possible that having the children there all day could be too much for her? Perhaps you could compromise and have them back earlier in the day and spend the afternoon with your mum.

for you and your mum. And I hope you manage to sort something out.

Ghoul. With respect. You do not know my mother. You do not know that she has been in town today planning the christmas surprises that get hidden all around the house with clues for the kids to find. Even me and the big kids. You do not know that it will be all doom and gloom and depressing whilst with my family.

There will be a sing song with kids on instruments and in a band with their grandpa. There will be silly hats and daft games and general nonsense.

The depressing house will be the one they are going to where there won't even be a cracker.

But sure, feel free to make all kinds of judgements when you don't know the charaters involved.

Can I also ask. Is your mother still living? Do you have any idea what this is like to face?